Ok here is an admission I hate to say but in looking for a problem with the horizontal oscillator I came across the 560k and I went and used a 560k wire wound 3 watt temporarily not knowing this won’t work then temporarily I put together 2 resistors to make up 560k well this obviously didn’t work so I did find the right resistor and no more short got hv but could this resistor having been at .800 k have caused the horizontal oscillator to quit. I hope this resistor restores the IF and sound I don’t know if this resistor is critical in if it drifts up some it will affect the IF and oscillator.

This is getting very confusing...
you are talking about R93? “.800 k” is 800ohms, way wrong for the part.
What is marked on the part exactly?

R93 560k when I first checked it was.800k.

which should have been marked green blue yellow silver (20%) gold for 10%

but...
.800k = 800 ohms.

does it still test like that out of the circuit ?

Well your right I screwed up again 560k green blue yellow but I just realized that the 560 I have here is green blue brown but it tests 560k some meters once over 500 it will show k or meg so now I have find one that shows k ohms without the decimal befor the 500. Omg this set is making me nuts the old 560k I took out measured .800k

Ok what I’m going to try is a 470k and a 100k together in series and I checked is .560meg that’s better if it works then I’ll go on to check voltages on v6 and v10.

That's why it is always important to look at the part under test, and not rely on the SAMs alone, cause it can be wrong, or not have updated part info, if the color code on the resistor says 560k and it tests as 800ohms, it clearly bad, but if they stuck an 800 in there for some reason, or a 3.3k like is shown in the (3300) option on the sams, it all depends on what is really in there, but most likely, it really WAS a 560k to start with (green blue yellow silver ) in there, and it drastically went down in value.

Oh I never rely on sams there’s always been mistakes so I do look at what’s in the chassis as I already found that there are parts not listed in the sams and yes I did look at the resistor and I knew it was 560k

Back to the same thing before sound is scratchy distorted and the -45 is jumping all over -39 -41 -30 and so on I can help but think maybe this new flyback is bad oh and no video.

So, you are saying you have gotten HV back and have a raster again and now back to the point of not able to tune in video?


So it's suggested again that you try a longevity run with video input at test point B, like you had it hooked up there before, ( removing 3rd IF V3), and work on sound and tuning after.

And as it says on the schematic, all voltages and waves are taken with test pattern input, w/o such input, it's understandable that voltages and waveforms will fluctuate as there is nothing to lock them into “normal” ranges.

So the -45v can fluctuate without anything to lock on to so is the horizontal oscillator and agc used with video input at test point b and the IF tubes out ?

you can leave the other IF tubes in, and remove the 3rd, as it could interfere with the input.

As for AGC, the set has a combo tube, AGC SYNC SEP, , the latter being needed for video lock.

so all that's needed to be pulled is V3, the rest can stay, they will just have nothing to do with no input if they are in the RF/IF stages.

Ok here’s what it looks like and the -45 came back.

Unfortunately, tuning/IF problems are some of the hardest ones to debug, even with something like a B&K 1077b television analyst or the like, no easy task at all.

You might want to start with a voltage check at the tuner plug, working back through the IF stages 1-2-3. looking at grid, plate & cathode voltages, that may tell you something.

But if tuning / IF is out of alignment, there is little to do other then hope to find someone with a sweep marker generator setup, and who knows how to use it.

What gets me is at the beginning I had clear sound and it slowly went to static distorted sound.

It could also be the tuner it looks like at one time the cover was removed and maybe putting it back maybe cut a wire inside. But still I had sound and if I had sound that would usually mean the tuner is good so if the IF is out I should still have sound.

sounds almost like an AGC/noise gate issue, advancing those controls CW has no effect?

Neither one makes a difference at all and I thought it was odd that if I touch the antenna to the uhf terminals I get the same thing as if it were on the vhf terminal. I even tried the old tuner tubes. Well the tuner is not immune from drifting resistor’s.

If the tuner is out, there is very little, if anything that can be done about it, cause there is nobody around who works on them anymore. :sigh:

They are very hard to work on as you end up doing more harm than good unless you really know what you are doing.

And as stated before, they have these to find out if it really IS the tuner that is faulty.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16563422078...Bk9SR_DcmuTsYA

Well I have worked on watches very tedious work so if I have to I would attempt it and the unit on eBay how is that hooked up.

I have one just like it, except mine has the AC option, that is battery only, (2 9-volts ), it simply acts as a substitute for the tuner you are testing, you unplug the RCA type cable from the tuner in the TV and plug it into the sub tuner, then feed the RF into it, set to whatever channel, adjust tuning and gain, see what happens, it's easy to use.

Yes I seen it I’ll get it and this chassis has an rca type plug from the tuner that plugs directly into the chassis right at the first IF and that subber looks like it has rca on the back.

Yes, that type of “RCA” IF connection is universal on most sets of the era, not sure when it became a standard.

Ok I had enough of this set I bought that subber hope it works so I’ll know if the tuner is bad or the IF is bad.

On TV IFs I think it started to become common in the mid-late 50s. It never was standard on TV tuners. Many brands simply had a couple of solder stakes to solder the coax to the tuner and that was a common cost saving measure up until the combined tuner/IF systems of the solid state era.

The RCA jack as a standard connector for consumer coax applications (primarily audio) dates back to pre-WWII IIRC.

And if it turns out that your IF section is hopelessly borked / misaligned, you always have the option of bypassing it all and going direct A/V input, this of course would require making a small 2 transistor simple video amp to boost the standard 1v video level to the 5v that this TV expects at the 1st video amp tube grid, otherwise things will look washed out, and sound can be easily added in on the volume control plug.

That tuner subber don’t have a fine tune is it crystal controlled so that channel 3 is 3 aside from having the gain control. Or I could have a power supply to power the subber and leave that in circuit but I would rather keep it original if I can.

What does the 190 volt supply measure when the set is “working” ? Is it still somewhat low?

jr

The 190v problem is solved had a bad resistor

So it is now putting out 190 volts?
Which resistor was bad? :scratch2:

jr

R93 had changed value to 800 ohms, from 560k, believe it or not :scratch2:

There seems to be a lot of believe it or nots with this set.

It’s almost as if the 6hq5 rf amp tube in the tuner is bad or extremely weak I have a sub I’m Going to try.

I have the 4-c version.

http://suzaku.live-evil.org/0922222215.jpg

that other one prob DOES have fine tuning, note the difference in the tuning nob, the wider control behind the one you got may be fine tuning.

Well I hope it works after all it’s from around 1974 I don’t want to have to fix it to get it to work lol.

So if the tuner subber works and I get video and sound then it is the tuner so I checked that it has 130v and 145v and that’s good There is a 4700 ohm resistor after the 130v and 1200 ohm after the 145v so if I have to get into the tuner those 2 resistors are what I’m going for first.

Two other common examples of resistors going down. All IIRC numbers.
GE 18" S-1 compactron POS sets had an 8.2K 2W that went way down.

Sylvania 19" hybrids two 56K 2W that went between the high B+ & the
24 V for the color ckts. They went down & smoked lots of stuff in
the color.
Other than those I cant remember any other fails with ohms going DOWN.
On Motos I do remember big brown resistors in the demod opening
& giving missing colors.

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Soinds like the D-12 Sylvania chassis they put that chassis in consoles too.

Got the tuner subber works good but it looks like the problem is in the IF strip having the subber in and increasing the gain I can see an image but all distorted along with sound so now back to the drawing board focusing on the strip.what causes a ceramic cap to be shiny and greasey looking while there are several other disc caps next to the one that’s shiny yet only that one and not the others next to it.

plz post pic of the screen image.