Same as the other image I posted only alittle more detail with the gain all the way up and I already pulled the chassis

Same as the " Godzilla " one last week? :O

This one but the gain up on the subber things are more able to make out

I know without a scope to get past each IF tube to rule out is going to be a tough nut to crack. I originally had sound but the one day it just fizzled out if the volume is up I still have sound but scratchy static so since the sound is off the 3rd IF it can still be anywhere from 1-3 IF tubes.

Unfortunately, this means that the IF is most likely badly out of alignment, most likely been tweaked.
Where as something like this MIGHT be caused by a bad component, if it was, it would more often than not be a faulty resistor than a bad capacitor, or even less likely a coil, cause as stated before, disc capacitors seldom ever go bad unless subjected to physical or electrical extremes, and since you have gone through and tested the resistors already, options are limited.

You may try to check all voltages on the pins of the IF tubes to see if they match what is listed in the schematic and hope to find something drastically wrong, but failing that there is not much else to do, other than hope to find someone with an alignment test setup, to debug/align the faulty stages, or bypass the RF/IF stage completely and go direct A/V input.

I don’t think it was tweaked because I had good sound and now it’s all static but can here the sound it self and I had a picture flickering in and out with the subber gain at max so I’ll have to go over resistors again and clip if I have to.

Is it possible that there is a problem in the sound detector v7 being the sound is off v3 3rd IF if there is a problem in the detector would it affect both sound and video seeing as both sound and video comes off the 3rd IF. Just a shot in the dark.

they use Intercarrier for sound, it's folded into the video.
C43 is the bypass cap for the sound det, sort of works like an FM radio, what is most likely going on is that by the time it gets from the tuner to the 3rd IF, the signal is so distorted, there is nothing for the sound det to work with.

The loss of sound has got to be why I can’t get video because I had sound initially it’s got to be the same problem unless it’s a really hard coincidence

What about the 1n60 if that is leaking I know it would take out the video but would it affect sound

it's the other way around, until you have clean video IF pathway, sound can't work, since sound is riding on top of it.
In some cases, (bw sets ) they take sound off after the video det diode.

Well maybe I should change every disc cap along the 3 IF tubes because there are no bad resistors that I found I tried different tubes there’s nothing left but these discs.

Before going that far, on the 3 tubes, taking voltage checks of pins pin 7,8,2,3 should tell you something.

voltage listings are on the SAMs.

Is that with an antenna on

should not matter, but give it a signal, to keep it happy as it says, " taken with signal input".

Now this is interesting first tube 7- 191v 8 - 67v 3 - 15v 2- 8v Second tube 7-195v 8-59v 2-13v 3-13v Third tube 7-212v 8-214v 2-0v 3-2.6v

Stage 3 seems OK, but WTF, with 1 & 2, may be a hand in hand problem with AGC control V6 via K1, as stage 3 does not seem to be linked as 1-2 are.

K1 I checked the resistors in that and were good and that crazy resistor network thing there maybe one of those big 3 watt resistors are bad but I think they are wire wound

If c15 and or c19 were shorted would this cause the voltage loss on those 2 tubes

Since it's most likely the first 2 stages acting up, what I would do in most cases, is resistors first, caps second, even if the DVM says they are OK, don't trust it in this case.

Replace R38,R39,R40,R41,R42,R43,R44,R45,R46,R47,R48,R49, R50 with metal film types of high quality 5% or better 2%-1%, and then, if no change is seen, then look at the caps.

What caps are you referring to and how is this pulling the voltage down on those 2 tubes

these resistors set the bias for those tubes, and if they are just not right, things may go out of wack, even though they may test OK, under load they still may be suspect, so replacing the ones mentioned may help.

So are you referring to the ceramic caps because that’s the only caps at these tubes. What could possibly cause this with only the first 2 tubes and not the 3rd if there’s something on let’s say the first then the second should show good but what is in common with the both it don’t seem to make sense that resistors on only the 2 are bad and not the 3rd.

R45 on the schematic shows it’s a 560 ohm but when I measure it it gives me .551k but I know sometimes any resistor that is over 500 ohms it shows me it in k ohms same thing with the other 560 resistor. This one is green blue brown.

This is based my own experience, and what others have told me about IF problems, added with the fact that ceramic caps are much less likely to fail than the older carbon composite resistors, this coupled with the indications of the incorrect voltage readings you gave pointing to problems with the first and second stages, meaning that is where the problem is MOST likely to be, I'm suggesting that you take the older carbon composite resistors in the first 2 sections out of the equation, even if they test OK with your DVM, who knows how they may act under full power and load, the end result, you will have better more stable and longer lasting resistors in there when you are done.

And then after that is done, then look for any possible shorted disc caps if it is still not working, but keep in mind it still may be an alignment issue.

good site for this is..
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/too...de-calculator/

but it does not give down to 20% :( you have to work that out for yourself

An alignment issue can keep the first 2 tubes from conducting the proper way or can they conduct and show correct voltages when an alignment is needed.

So I am going to pull the first tube and check the voltages on the second and if the voltages are good on the second then that narrows down to the first tube having a problem if not then first one back and I pull the second and check voltages again hopefully I can get it down to one tube I can’t believe that both tubes developed a problem at the same time.

It does make some sense that if the alignment was off, that the tube dynamics would be upset to some degree, but how much, who can say.

First tube pulled 7- 252 8- 136 3-5 2-4
Second pulled with first put back in 7-242 8-130 3-7 2-15v

It's almost as if the alignment is WAY off, and AGC is trying to compensate for it by messing with the gain of stages 1-2.

the numbers gave today are relatively normal, compared to the ones yesterday, namely voltage on pin 8, (130ish ) where it was 60v ish last time you tested.

This is probably being caused by.
AGC changing gain of these tubes.
Changes in voltage on the 275v line.
Changes in value of the 3w/2w power resistors on pin 8 as they heat up.
This added with the fact that the alignment is most likely off to start with.

Don’t voltages normally go up when a tube is pulled? And I checked voltages also with no antenna and no change.

the draw of an IF tube is so small, it won't matter that much, in or out.

Well I don’t understand how a 100v drops to 60v that’s not so small of a draw I would think

Due to the action of the AGC, the 1st and 2nd IF is in constant flux, using horizontal pulses and video as reference points, even with garbage video, AGC will try to gain on those tubes via cathode and grid 1, this of course will have an effect on the other tube elements when this takes place.

Where it's hard to be sure why that 100v on pin 8 dropped liked that, it's unlikely that it was because that 275v was low, so it's prob tube biasing and / or related to the age of the resistors in the area coupled with the fact that alignment may be off.

Alignment is all but impossible to correct given the current situation, but upgrading to better resistors is a pain, but rather cheap.

I can’t help but go back to having sound stronger on channel 4 then 3 but the one day I had the set on and the sound just faded into distortion and static but can still make out voices and that’s how it still is so if alignment was the cause sound would not have been good in the beginning so I still believe the loss of sound has got to be the reason for bad voltages and no video.

So if you think the agc is trying to clean up a bad signal then what if I pull the 6hs8 agc tube then see if voltages get better on the first and second IF tubes.

Well pulled the agc tube didn’t make a difference.

Read page 8 of the sams, where is says “alignment instructions” , the better choice is to do as it says, connect a variable voltage to point A, and adjust to what ever needed, 3v 4v 2v, this overrides the AGC control, for alignment, this can sometimes be done for testing.

I think I’m going to try and get the 12 caps across the IF strip and change them. there are some that are shiny almost to say they got hot or whatever the reason is they get the oil or wet look. Something took out the sound that I had. maybe I’ll get lucky and find one that is leaking or partially shorted. I checked voltages this time with no antenna and pin 8 on both tubes still low.