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-   -   Westinghouse 22" rectangular find - caught in Audiokarma limbo! (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=245976)

jr_tech 09-18-2009 10:57 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Again, Thanks for all the encouragement and comments.

I took only two pictures today, and did the "ramp-up" heater test that I described above... full 6.3V and everything looks normal. Then I slowly brought up the voltage to the TV (horiz output tube plate connections pulled since it is a series set).

Observations:
Tubes light up, horiz osc runs, vert osc runs and appears to sync when channel is selected, sound on ch 5 ok (we still have a low power VHF analog), no hum, and no purple glow in crt (although with the horiz output disconnected, B+ boost is not being generated).

Any recommendations for the next step?... Plug on the plate caps and let 'er rip? or more tests to be careful?

Side control panel.... picture1
Picture of the crt in Peter Kellers book*...Picture2
*see reference above... copied WITH permission of the author.

Charlie 09-18-2009 11:44 PM

Wow... sounds like we will soon be witnessing the re-birth of an early Westinghouse rectangular color set!

Jr: Do you remember how long it's been since the last time this set was turned on?

andy 09-19-2009 12:49 AM

...

John Folsom 09-19-2009 12:54 AM

Steve D and Jr Tech: My Westinghouse service manual gives no insights into model numbers, but does give a complete "service school". I recently brought a 15" unrestored Admiral color set up very slowly on a viriac and was able to get color bars on the screen. You might give this a try on the Westighouse, just to see if you can get any HV and raster. But I would advise you to go ahead and re-cap the set, including electrolytics. This will give you the maximum reliability.

John Folsom 09-19-2009 01:01 AM

2 Attachment(s)
These to items are posted on behalf of Steve Dichter, who has issues posting photos to the VK website.

VIsit his website at:

http://community-2.webtv.net/stevetek/StevesCT100/

:-)

Charlie 09-19-2009 01:32 AM

From the way that ad sounds, Jr should have a "trouble-free" experience in turning on his set! :D

Sure is funny what companies would say to make their product sound better than someone else's!

Steve D. 09-19-2009 02:12 AM

My thanks to John Folsom for posting my pix of the captions containing the model numbers from the Westinghouse ad. Still a mystery about the different model #s between the SAMS listing and the ad text.

-Steve D.

fauxpaw 09-19-2009 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D. (Post 2954822)
My thanks to John Folsom for posting my pix of the captions containing the model numbers from the Westinghouse ad. Still a mystery about the different model #s between the SAMS listing and the ad text.

-Steve D.

I suspect that the T in the model number stands for table, and the K for console (sic). Per jr's earlier post, the Photofact only references T models so perhaps no console models were ever built. If we had additional information on the other surviving sets (assuming they're real), that might help to answer this question.

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?

jr_tech 09-19-2009 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Folsom (Post 2954815)
I recently brought a 15" unrestored Admiral color set up very slowly on a viriac and was able to get color bars on the screen. You might give this a try on the Westighouse, just to see if you can get any HV and raster. But I would advise you to go ahead and re-cap the set, including electrolytics. This will give you the maximum reliability.

That is the way that I have done it in the past. I had not heard of this process of bringing up the voltage slowly with the horiz output tubes disconnected, until I read some posts in this forum. Can somebody explain the theory behind this? My *guess* is that the flyback could possibly be cooked if the horiz osc does not start before current flows through the horiz output tubes. Is this the concern?

jr

jr_tech 09-19-2009 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fauxpaw (Post 2954850)

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?

The tube layout chart shows an alternate UHF tuner that does not appear to be covered in Photofact 357-12 (5-57). Mine does not have the UHF tuner and the stamped model number (barely visible in the photo that I posted) does not have the "U" although there is a space at that position: "H22T 155D". So the 155 is mahogany and the 156 is Blonde and the 161 never existed?

jr

Steve D. 09-19-2009 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fauxpaw (Post 2954850)
I suspect that the T in the model number stands for table, and the K for console (sic). Per jr's earlier post, the Photofact only references T models so perhaps no console models were ever built. If we had additional information on the other surviving sets (assuming they're real), that might help to answer this question.

I wonder if the TU model number listed on jr's label refers to a version that includes a UHF tuner?

Jr's post came in as I was typing mine. Photofact 357-12 was published almost a year after jr's set was mfg. So more unanswered questions on model #'s. Cabinet styles never produced? Here's my post as submitted:
I agree that a "U" designation in a model # usually indicates the optional UHF tuner. The rest of a model # may include cabinet type ie: table, console ect. and perhaps a finish such as Mahogany or Limed-Oak ect. The SAMS numbers does include several numbers for the 22" such as those ending in 155A/156A/157A this may include the console as well as the table model.
The console model was selected for the cover photo featuring various 1956-57 color sets (2nd from top) In the Radio & Television News special Color Television issue in 1957. The cover is posted on my site. A dealer catalog featuring these 22" models would answer a lot of these questions. A fellow VK collector may have this catalog stashed somewhere. Check that carton of catalogs in the basement, garage or back closet. We all have them.

-Steve D.

fauxpaw 09-19-2009 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D. (Post 2954856)
Jr's post came in as I was typing mine. Photofact 357-12 was published almost a year after jr's set was mfg. So more unanswered questions on model #'s. Cabinet styles never produced? Here's my post as submitted:
I agree that a "U" designation in a model # usually indicates the optional UHF tuner. The rest of a model # may include cabinet type ie: table, console ect. and perhaps a finish such as Mahogany or Limed-Oak ect. The SAMS numbers does include several numbers for the 22" such as those ending in 155A/156A/157A this may include the console as well as the table model.
The console model was selected for the cover photo featuring various 1956-57 color sets (2nd from top) In the Radio & Television News special Color Television issue in 1957. The cover is posted on my site. A dealer catalog featuring these 22" models would answer a lot of these questions. A fellow VK collector may have this catalog stashed somewhere. Check that carton of catalogs in the basement, garage or back closet. We all have them.

-Steve D.

John Folsom, does your service manual say anything about model numbers and the differences between them?

John Folsom 09-19-2009 03:12 PM

The Westinghouse service data in Riders Vol. 21 give this list for models:
H22T155
H22TU155
H22T157A
(mahogany)
H22T156
H22TU156
(limed oak)

Chassis
V-2293 or V-2294

In addition, in the parts list there is a half page of assorted knobs, escutcheon and trim pieces assigned to the various cabinet types and models. It seems like the "A" version has some kind of pushbutton on/off, and a window in the escutcheon (tuning indication?). The "U" definitely indicates UHF tuning.

There is no mention of a console version. Riders Vol 21 is copyright 1957.

andy 09-19-2009 03:56 PM

...

akent36 09-19-2009 03:58 PM

If that was my set and the CRT was good and in the series filament string, I would try to put in a separate CRT filament transformer. Can't hurt.

jr_tech 09-19-2009 04:48 PM

Light !
 
1 Attachment(s)
Well this ain't much... but it is light, :yes: It appears that when we removed the tube for the photo session, we got the yoke off 120 degrees :(

Since Peter Kellers crt book was published in 1991, I suspect that the set has not been turned on since then or I *might* have noticed this error.

Again, thanks all for the good input!


"I would try to put in a separate CRT filament transformer"

It actually has a 6.3V winding on the autotransformer that is used for the B+... Strange, but inexpensive way to go!

jr

John Folsom 09-19-2009 05:41 PM

Wow, that is fantastic! I must confess a considerable amount of green envy! Now you need to give it a good re-cap, and see were you are. Please post some photos of it all tweaked up and working well when the time comes.

I agree with Andy, I cannot see any real advantage to bringing a set up on a variac with the HOT removed, as opposed to doing the same thing with the HOT in place.

jeyurkon 09-19-2009 07:28 PM

Amazing! It's great that it works.

John

ohohyodafarted 09-19-2009 07:38 PM

WOW Jr That leaves me without words. I am speachless! What a rare moment in our hobby. So very thankful to you for sharing all of this with us.

zenithfan1 09-19-2009 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohohyodafarted (Post 2954877)
WOW Jr That leaves me without words. I am speachless! What a rare moment in our hobby. So very thankful to you for sharing all of this with us.

I second that!:thmbsp: I'll also add to John Folsom's comment by saying I think we're all a bit green with jealousy on this one, what an awesome sight. :thmbsp::D:banana:

damen 09-19-2009 09:34 PM

Wow... that is such a cool rare set and it looks like a sure thing that it will work good when it is finished. Can't wait to see the pics. of it working and thanks for shareing it.:thmbsp:

bgadow 09-19-2009 09:40 PM

Amazing! Many thanks for sharing! Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh, but not the bunch of guys who hang out here! Wow!

Carmine 09-19-2009 10:09 PM

That is mighty incredible to actually see.

jr_tech 09-19-2009 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgadow (Post 2954903)
Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh,

I did a bit of that myself ! :) It can only get better... I hope!

Thanks for all the good comments !!

One of the corner mount spacers for the CRT was missing, so I spent some time today fabricating a replacement. I want the CRT to be mounted nice and solid before I try to rotate the yoke to its proper position.

jr

Charlie 09-20-2009 10:43 AM

Wow Jr! That's great! You certainly have most of it licked... a good CRT, light on the screen, and video!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgadow (Post 2954903)
Amazing! Some folks might see that picture and shrug their shoulders or laugh, but not the bunch of guys who hang out here! Wow!

My father often laughs and shakes his head when I get excited about bringing a set back to life. I could only imagine his comments if he were to realize several of us from all over the country and rest of the world were tuning in to witness the re-birth of this one particular "old television" :yes:

Steve D. 09-20-2009 01:01 PM

Hey jr.

I'm really delighted that you are taking such care with this rare gem. In going back over the previous posts, I noticed, in your first posted pix. on the left, what appears to be two small holes drilled into the lower right portion of the mask. Are these actual holes or just some dirt trapped behind the safety glass? If they are holes, pehaps a logo, indicating "COLOR" was inserted there?

attachment.php?attachmentid=164778&d=1253162046
http://www.videokarma.org/attachment...8&d=1253162046

Just pure speculation on my part.

-Steve D.

Steve McVoy 09-20-2009 01:43 PM

jr's photos are now at our site:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/westi...e_h22t155.html

jr_tech 09-20-2009 02:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks again folks!

Got the yoke turned without breaking the neck off or anything* :) and took another picture... looks a little better, but I think that no color info is getting to the tube, the color differences seen are likely differences in drive levels/tracking of the 3 guns. I have made no adjustments other than turn the yoke to its proper position.

Steve D... the "holes" are just little dust bunnies. I remember seeing several of the 21" round tube (cyp?) versions of this set, and they did not have a color logo either.

*did that once to a 21AXP22... had to change my shorts!

jr

zenithfan1 09-20-2009 03:01 PM

She's getting close!

John Folsom 09-20-2009 04:08 PM

Jr, that is just fantastic.

sampson159 09-20-2009 05:16 PM

when i get up in the morning.i cant wait to check this site,just to see what someone has found or working on.this is an amazing find!the rarest of the rare?i often heard of this set but never actually saw one.i am awestruck and dumbfounded to say the least.

Sandy G 09-20-2009 06:34 PM

Yeah, I thought these bad boys were all prototypes, & never were actually sold..

bgadow 09-20-2009 09:22 PM

:ntwrthy:

ceebee23 09-21-2009 06:56 AM

WOW what can I say ...a set that is almost mythical appears out of the mists .... astounding and great work JR .... good luck with getting it back into peak form!!!

roundscreen 09-23-2009 06:37 PM

That is the coolest set I have ever seen. The convergence does not look that bad either.
Wow.
Ed

freakaftr8 09-23-2009 07:05 PM

The emission looks good to me! That is so cool to see a rectangular CRT before the round CRT! Too wierd still!

jpdylon 09-23-2009 07:24 PM

stunning to see a set like that - working to boot!

well done, sir. :ntwrthy:

joemama99 09-24-2009 10:10 AM

I don't believe it!Finding a set like that is impossible-AND IT PLAYS,TOO!!!

kx250rider 09-24-2009 10:57 AM

This has me inspired to get the one I used to own working... It's in the hands of another Los Angeles collector, and he's 50/50 on letting it be worked on. I checked the CRT, and it's OK. I Variac'd it up, but the selenium rectifiers were acting up, and I never went further with it. I didn't realize they were so desirable at the time. Heck; I should probably have kept it, and I won't upset myself nor anyone else by blabbing what small price I sold it for... I'll talk with the owner, and see how he feels about it now.

Charles

jr_tech 09-24-2009 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kx250rider (Post 2955390)
This has me inspired to get the one I used to own working... It's in the hands of another Los Angeles collector,
Charles

Wow! Another one! :banana:
My guess is that there are more out there that have been overlooked, because they look so ordinary, and are not clearly identified as "color".

Any vendor recommendations for NOS tubes, Caps?

jr


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