Not my cup of tea... but then I like the looks of the GE 15CL100, the Westinghouse H840CK15, and the late 40s UST projection sets, all of which have an unconventional (some might say ugly) design.

Antique TVs are like cars and women. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

+1.

Ahem. Show me a picture of a 1955 Admiral, please.

David,

Same question occurred to me when I read the post. Closest I can come to the 1954 15" is the 1956 Admiral color receiver.

-Steve D.

It's come up in conversation before among the early color guys with pretty much unanimous consensus that it was never more than an artist's rendering. I know John Folsom is certain the set never existed. It depicts a fantasy upgrade of Admiral's 15" set to sort of their version of the 21-CT55.

Closest I came was this '56 that I picked up for Nick about a year ago....

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=265219

I stumbled on this article while researching the 15 inch Admiral color set.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/image31.jpeg

I found a second article saying basically the same thing, but did not save it. I saved the above article because it mentioned the 15 inch color set. Had no reason not to believe it. I have no photos.

David, I also believe that to be correct. Again, I could never find an ad or any documentation that would validate that the early 21" Admiral existed. More hype by the Admiral Corp. The actual '56-'57 Admiral color receivers were manufactured starting in late 1956 for the 1957 model year. They were produced to directly compete with the RCA Victor CTC-5 models. They used an Admiral designed chassis. Admiral, like RCA, offered a model under $500.00.

-Steve D.

[QUOTE=dtvmcdonald;3172641]Seventy would not have been too many.

I would like to see the names of 35 of the possible 70 manufacturers.

I was doubtful about the 70 also, but I found a list of over 100 manufacturers that were active in the 50s. From the tv history site:

http://www.tvhistory.tv/1950-59-ALL-USA.htm

jr

Many of the names listed are brand names, not manufacturers. The private label sets were made by several different firms. :scratch2:

Good point! Looking through the list do you think that 70 manufacturers is too high? how about 35 then?

jr

This from Wikipedia

^ "Television in Review: N.B.C. Color," New York Times, Jan. 5, 1954, p. 28. Two days earlier Admiral demonstrated to their distributors the prototype of Admiral's first color television set planned for consumer sale using the NTSC standards, priced at $1,175 (equivalent to $10,371 in 2015). It is not known when the later commercial version of this receiver was first sold. Production was extremely limited, and no advertisements for it were published in New York or Washington newspapers. "First Admiral Color TV," New York Times, Dec 31, 1953, p. 22. "Admiral's First Color TV Set," Wall Street Journal, Dec. 31, 1953, p. 5.

Prototype only?

This page goes into great detail, http://www.visions4.net/journal/chromatron/

I believe the 15 inch Admiral set went into production but in small numbers. Admirals set were in pilot production in December, 1953. Admiral announced the set was going to distributors on December 30, 1953 and would be sold for $1175.

The photo of the Admiral color set in the Pittsburgh store on February 24, 1954 was an appliance store, not a distributor. There is evidence that at least one service center was available to service the Admiral 15 inch color set. There is evidence showing that Admiral was selling the set for 4 months or more. They announced "a second series of color sets" were being shipped in May, 1954 with a price reduction of $175., from the previous price announced in December, 1953.

It has been said in this thread that because there were no advertisements of the set found, we should conclude the set never sold. First, there was a spec sheet/dealer handout for the set. Second, there are other examples of televisions with no advertisements, yet they existed and could be purchased. I could give you three examples that come to mind.

If your only criteria is that a) the set existed, b) the set could have been sold, and c) the company advertised the set or claimed to sell the set, then the Admiral would not have been the first set offered. Zenith claimed to have sold one of their 15 inch sets in December of 1953 to WGN-TV in Chicago. They also claimed to have started production of their 15 inch receiver on November 19, 1953.
In any case, the claims of both Zenith and Admiral are starting to look (to me anyway) more and more like hyperbolic marketing drivel.

I agree with Steve: the Westinghouse should be considered the first production NTSC color television set.

To further extend this debate and hopefully not controversy, in this February 26, 2013 thread: http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=257478

John Folsom asked this question:

"I am not sure when Admiral actually had set in dealer showrooms for sale, so I am not sure if they can really claim to be "first". Anyone know?"

To answer John's question, there was an Admiral 15 color set in a dealer showroom in Pittsburg, Beacon TV, on or prior to February 24, 1954. It is not known if they were taking orders only or if they had the set in stock. If the public could place a purchase order in that store at that time, it would constitute a "sale".

In the same forum Steve D. commented "Taking Pete Deksnis' argument that RCA produced several thousand CT-100's starting in March, 1954 and were available to distributors & dealers by late April,'54 does not trump the fact that the public could could go into a Westinghouse dealer and purchase a color tv in Feb. 1954."

Using this criteria, we have a photo shown earlier in this tread of the Admiral color set in a dealers store and presumably for sale prior to or on February 24, 1954.

All of that is fine and well, but Zenith sold a 15 inch set in 1953. The argument that Admiral "could have" sold a set becomes moot, as Zenith had already actually sold one of theirs to WGN.

Ben,

I believe the Zenith set was previously discounted as being first if you read Tom's website, History of Television the First 75 Years and the above quoted thread. The owner of that Zenith himself said it was a prototype.

Edit: This is the thread with the Zenith discussion.

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=22010

2nd edit: Further documentation here: http://www.visions4.net/journal/chromatron/

For all intents and purposes, BOTH the Admiral and the Zenith are prototypes. The Westy was the first set produced in quantity. The Admiral and Zenith were built in vanishingly small numbers. They survive in similar numbers. One of them, the Zenith, was *actually sold* to third party, WGN, before any other manufacturer sold a set. With all due respect, your argument for the Admiral is specious at best. CBS sold a field sequential set first, Zenith sold what was probably the first all-electronic set. I don't see how you can still argue for the Admiral.

More evidence:

Article published January 4, 1954 in the Pittsburgh Press.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/IMG_1264.jpg

Article published February 21, 1954 from the Pittsburg Press: “100% trade-in allowance toward color television on any new set purchased from us now.”

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/IMG_1263.jpg

Article published April,9 1954
http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/image33.jpeg

This, plus everything I previously posted is why I believe the Admiral 15 inch color set was the first all electronic color set to be marketed and publicly for sale.

Of course the CBS was the first color set. The Zenith that sold was a commercial sale, not a consumer sale and was and is considered a prototype.

The Zenith was a prototype, but so was the Admiral. Both were developed to the point where they probably could have been sold (the Zenith actually was!) and based on survival rates, it isn't a leap to conclude they were built in similar numbers. Seven Zeniths are known to exist to three or four Admirals. Hell the Zeniths may have been built in numbers exceeding the so-called production model Admiral. We aren't even sure if Admiral sold one of their sets, whereas we know Zenith did. Anyway, this whole argument hinges on your definition of a prototype (one I strongly disagree with), and your belief that the WGN sale somehow doesn't count because it wasn't to a member of the public. I think we'll have to simply agree to disagree on the topic...

If you argue a prototype as being a set designed before the [NTSC] standard, then the CT-100 could be considered a prototype too. Sure it had some minor circuit and cabinet changes, but it is pretty much a model 5 prototype pushed into mass-production. ...Even mass-production is not a good delineation between a prototype and production model since many later consumer model sets (even 21"ers) were made in such limited quantities that production methods often were the same as small run demonstration prototypes like the model 5.

IMO the true delineation between prototype and consumer set is in whether the company intentionally sold them to civilians [members of the general public not working for the TV industry] through their dealers. Every model has a prototype...what makes a set consumer is when someone brings the prototype to production as-is and says 'make X more just like this and add them to our current consumer offerings'.

I never thought of it that way Tom, but you're right, even mass production makes a poor line in the sand. There are currently 7 known '55-'56 Hoffman Colorcasters; they're even rarer than the 15 inch Westy, the RCA CT-100, 21-CT-55s, and the CTC-4s.

I still maintain that the supposed advertisements for the Admiral are little more than hyperbolic drivel used by Admiral to enhance their image in the mind of the public, especially in light of the advertisement for the 1955 Admiral 21 incher that didn't exist. I suppose the issue could only be settled by doing the impossible: going back in time to December of 1953, and attempting to order a C1617A from them. Regardless, it doesn't really matter; when most collectors think of the first color TV, they're likely to conjure mental images of a CT-100 or 15 inch Westy, be that correct, incorrect, or otherwise....

This is beginning top sound like the Ford vs. Chevy debate which we all know will never be settled. (I own one of each)

Ford vs. Chevy is like arguing whether you'd rather have ebola or rabies... Dodge/Chrysler products are where it's at! :thmbsp:

I've got strains of both (Lincoln and GMC), and my folks got the Asiatic flu (Honda)...I've heard enough tails of low mileage Mopar working like crap that newer mopar (aside from their retro muscle cars) seem like the plague to me. :D

The Ford and Chevy I own are SUVs. For sedans, I've only owned Mercedes-Benz since 1975. Nothing else comes even close.

Think we've wandered off topic a bit. Just saying.

-Steve D.

Bringing it back on topic. Steve, your point about advertising is well taken ..... but, for instance the RCA 21CT55. It seems they did about zero advertiseing on that set which was only available a short time (6 months?). Other then the "Big Color" ad found by Wayne, I have not been able to find a single ad, only things in RCA technical publications.

There was one ad showing all the parts of the set laid out in front of it, but that was in an RCA publication. After extensive searching, I did find one obscure ad by a tire company of all things in South Boston, Va. published January 20, 1955 and that's it.

On the Sony KV 7010U Chromatron, I have searched everywhere I can think of and can't come up with one single ad or dealer handout. Only the service manual. Even queried the Sony Archive Museum in Tokyo and they know nothing of it.

Back in the 80's before computers, the only way an enthusiast could find information was from magazines or newspapers. I learned about the Sharp Crystaltron 3 inch color LCD from magazines. It was a breakthrough product at the time and I wanted one. Could not find a single ad anywhere so I looked up the nearest Sharp distributer near me. They were in Sacramento, CA. Called and they indeed had the Crystaltron. I made arrangements to meet him, he had it in three colors and I ended up buying from a distributor! Today on the internet, I can find manufacture ads on the Crystaltron, but at the time no ads could be found.

In the case of the Admiral 15 inch color set, it was a real niche market in 1954. You either had to be well heeled or a techie/early adopter. RCA had name recognition and the money to advertise, plus the fact they were the top daug, big promoters of color television with an enormous vested interest to succeed. I think Admiral was watching what RCA did carefully and whenever RCA launched a new product, they responded in kind, but on a much smaller scale. Color TV in 1954 was very slow for the reasons Steve said earlier. Both manufacturers terminated production of their first sets about the same time. I have found newspaper articles verifying this. If you read the biography of the President of Admiral, you will get insights into the man. He wanted to be first with innovation.

I suspect that other dealers like Beacon TV had the Admiral sets in their stores, but sold very few if any. RCA had the name, if folks were going to spend that big money for a color set, it was going to be an RCA. That is my personal view and two cents.

etype2,

Your points are well taken, but also consider that some of the sets in those stores may have actually been strictly for demo purposes. J.L. Hudson's, Detroit's flagship department store (and at one time the second largest in the world behind Macy's) had numerous 15G based sets on display in 1954. A period ad on microfiche at the Detroit Public Library lists Majestic and Raytheon-Belmont as among the manufacturers with a set at Hudson's. To my knowledge no examples of either survive, so it isn't unreasonable to conclude they were probably prototypes not destined for the public.

Is it possible that Beacon TV was lent the Admiral, with the understanding that it NOT be sold?

Ben,

Very good information about J.L. Hudson. I grew up in Milwaukee and remember that store.

Consider what the Beacon TV's advertisement said "100% trade-in allowance toward color television on any new set purchased from us now".

I believe this is very good evidence that the set was indeed for sale. Do I think the Admiral set displayed at that time was a "loaner"? Very possible. I do believe Beacon TV was taking purchase orders and if executed, to my mind that constitutes a "sale".

I wonder if any persons from that store or kids of people that were interested in buying color are still living and remember someone inquiring of purchasing one those sets and if the sale was permitted?

I'm still trying to find other newspaper clippings about the Admiral set. I found a newspaper clipping in April, 1954 stating that "Admiral has begun to ship its second series of color sets with a price reduction of $175." No doubt to match the price of the RCA CT-100 that went on sale in April, 1954.

That certainly strongly implies that the earlier sets and the second series were indeed for sale to the public....Otherwise why even price them?

Taking a cue from Ben's last post, here is a Feb. 9, 1954 NY Times ad from
The John Wanamaker Dept. Store. It invites folks to attend a viewing of their color receivers from various manufacturers. The list includes Zenith which is known to have only provided prototype color sets at this time. Admiral is not on the list.


I'm sure these were all demo/prototype sets to peak the public's interest.

-Steve D.

Also posting these 2 ads inviting customers to view Pacific Mercury color receivers
at Los Angeles area stores. #1 is from the Dec-31-53 L.A. Times for the Dorn's Dept. Store showing a broadcast of the 1st color telecast of the Rose Parade from NBC, Jan 1, 1954.

Ad #2 is from a March, 1954 So. Ca. newspaper also inviting folks to view a Pacific Mercury prototype color TV at an L.A. area appliance store. The ad also states that production of color tv's will begin as soon as TV stations begin regular color broadcasts.

The chassis for this prototype set still survives as seen in the attached photos.

-Steve D.

Interesting article. There is even an implication that the sets were for sale. The verbiage "whether you choose black and white or color"

Possibly Wanamaker was not franchised to sell Admiral?

Edit: I didn't see your second posting while typing this. Very interesting information. There was an Admiral set available for the Rose parade in Milwaukee.

The thing about the Admiral set is that we have it priced with an announcement on December 30, 1953. We have evidence that the Admiral was added to the 1954 line of televisions in Chicago, Admiral's home base on January 4, 1954. We have a statement in a published book that Admiral sold the set in 1953 so they could take a tax deduction on their color manufacturing facilities. We have evidence that Beacons TV which was an Admiral dealer was indeed offering the Admiral set for sale as early as February 21, 1954. We have evidence that Admiral reduced the price of the Admiral set in April 9, 1954, most likely to match the price of RCA's first color set and also saying this was "the second series of color sets being shipped". We have evidence that a company was offering parts for the new Admiral set and we have evidence of a dealer handout advertisement for the Admiral set.

If you read the handout, at the bottom, it talks about the set "for your home". It was written for the consumer. I have seem similar handouts where they were geared to the distributors such as "your customers will appreciate this feature (so and so) ....

The author of the book needed to check his sources. If Admiral were audited, they would have to prove a sale(s) in 1953 or that they indeed offered the set for sale in 1953.

Lastly Steve, your own words: "Taking Pete Deksnis' argument that RCA produced several thousand CT-100's starting in March, 1954 and were available to distributors & dealers by late April,'54 does not trump the fact that the public could could go into a Westinghouse dealer and purchase a color tv in Feb. 1954."

I understand the advertising you found solidified your belief. I have debated why there was not much advertising done for the Admiral above in this thread.

If you choose not to believe that Beacons TV was offering the set for sale despite what they said in their ad and call it "hype" I can't defend that. We are friends this is a great debate.


I guess this debate will go on. :-) I still believe the Admiral was the first all electronic color set to be offered for sale.

For your consideration. Article from Benton Harbor, Michigan, January 25, 1954, more evidence :

Available for immediate delivery when shipment arrives.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/IMG_1289.jpg

If they weren't selling, they were giving then away: Arthur Godfrey Liquid Lux contest. 10 Admiral 15 inch color consoles. (A similar contest was held for the RCA 21CT55 sponsored by Kraft Parkay margarine.)

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...s/IMG_1301.jpg

A Google search found a snippet that Admirals production number was 1000 color sets in January, 1954. Also found two classified ads from 1955 of people selling the Admiral 15 inch color set.

I think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Admiral was the first consumer color set available. Clearly they did intentionally sell them to consumers, and corporate interests that gave those sets to consumers....Neat!:smoke:

That is some good research work.:thmbsp: