The currently available HD DVB boxes will down convert HD to SD for display on SD analog sets. If these boxes (or at least boxes that could decode HD even if they could only output SD) were available from the start of DVB broadcasting we wouldn't be stuck with triplecasting everything. This doesn't leave enough bandwidth for true HD. At least one channel tries to gain back some bandwidth by reducing the error correction. Its a lose/lose situation as those who've gone HD aren't getting what they paid for and everyone gets glitches when the reception is anything less than perfect.

I grabbed an Thomson SD box when a "faulty" one came my way for $5. It actually does work better than some of the boxes that have been brought in for repair, but I still prefer to watch the analog signal.

The bigger joke is the ads on digital cable for HD. Their signal is SD only and often compressed more than over the air SD. I've seen some programs that look like a dodgy rip downloaded off p2p.

Indextrons
 

I have a pdf version of the full service manual. Free to anyone who wants it.
(16.2 megs, raw data).

I would like to set up a sort of task group of collectors of the KVX-370 to pool the knowledge and help each other fix his set(s).

Thank you for your offer, I would like to look at your PDF service manual. As you can see from my previous post I need to refresh my memory on these little guys and would and use my set as a test bed and share whatever I find with others.
Thanks,
Richard

Convertor Coupons, Vaporware, Free TV and 2009
 

[QUOTE=Pete Deksnis]"[forty dollar] [I]converter coupons will be available beginning this January and they are expected to cover about 60-75 percent of the set-top's cost. "

The only set top boxes these coupons 'cover' decode ATSC but down convert it to NTSC and output analog stereo sound, composite and S-Video only. No Y, R-Y, B-Y, no 480p, 720p or 1080i, and no 5.1 Ch, SPDIF or TOSLINK. The specs are here:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/otiahome/dtv...ufacturers.pdf

I have yet to see any of these 'coupon offer' set top boxes for sale anywhere, and from what I have read none are being manufactured yet. They
seem to be vaporware at this point.

Also, it probably is not general knowledge, but there is NO legal requirement for any broadcaster to transmit HDTV signals. The only broadcast required by law is a digital version of the same standard definition signal that the broadcaster is currently sending out in NTSC.

Further, the cable and satellite companies do not want the general public to know about free over the air digital broadcasting because it cuts into their
profits. Some cable companies have even threatened broadcasters with pulling their ads from the station if they promote their free OTA channel number in their broadcasts.

Do any stations anywhere promote their digital TV channels? Not in the Philly area. Most people have no idea what's coming in 2009.

~the Cliff who is saddened by the current state of affairs in broadcasting.

Don't get me started on the idiocy of tv standards in my country .....Australia's switch to digital transmission has been totally stuffed by artificial rules to look after the current networks (who seem strangely to support the current government!!)...funny that .... but then our cable rules are equally dumb ...and there is no HD cable ....and of course hardly any HDTV broadcasting in 1080i...mainly becaus ethe networks want to use the bandwidth to multicast!!

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Hi Richard,

Please give me your E-Mail address so that i can send you the Indextron (KVX-370) pdf manual.

Best Regards

jhalphen at dial dot oleane dot com

Indextrons
 

Sure can, dallk01@aol.com Thanks for sharing it. I will keep you posted.
Richard.

Can you upload the service manual for me?

New news today!

DIGITAL TV

The government is relying mostly on broadcasters to tell people that non-digital televisions will not get over-the-air signals after February 2009, the Senate Commerce Committee was told. The government is spending only $5 million to let people know about the changeover from analog to digital signals. Critics say the government should do more.


polaraman

You would think that the news coverage of how the FCC should auction off the TV frequency spectrum would give everyone a clue. I would not expect too much from this clueless administration.

I think that is wrong, auctioning off the spectrum, it is not a limitless resource and it should be held in common for all. I'm sorry if I'm touching politics, but I feel bad for voting for this current administration twice although the other side is just as bad and has nothing to offer either. No matter who you vote for, the common people get rolled over. I'll just leave it at that.

Hello, Check with member Jhalphen. He is the gentleman who sent it to me, I burned it to a disc and gave it and my Indextron to a friend.
If I can get it back I will be happy to send it to you.
Richard.

Hello aafuss,

Give me your E-Mail address, i will send you the complete KVX-370 "Indextron" Service Manual + schematics.

Do you own an Indextron ?
Working or not ?

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

I agree completely with this.

Selling off the spectrum to private interests will mean our government will no longer have the vehical to easily communicate to the public over the air. There are still many families not hooked up to satelite or cable. Digital technology is great but if there are no more VHF channels left its not going to travel any kind of distance over UHF. In case of national emergency there will be significant areas not covered by UHF and that means the public at large will not get proper instruction from our federal government.

The VHF spectrum needs to be kept in the public domain IMO.

IMO, the AM radio band is what should really be used an an emergency. It works well and there are many 50KW stations. As far as free over the air TV their days are numbered. They will just become program supplyers to cable and Satelite when 2009 comes around very few people will use the 8VSB signals

Well it appears the corporations have already figured out how to get us paying for bottled water and finally have figured it out how we are going to lose our free television.

Makes you kind of wonder when they will figure out how to charge us for breathing the air.

[QUOTE=Carmine]"...your TV/car/toothbrush might function perfectly well, but you simply don't want to appear to be the neighborhood nutcase or cheapskate because you're watching a 1965 TV set while the rest of the world has moved on to flatscreens."

People must really think I'm the nutcase then (drive a '60s car, use rotary phones and no cell phone, use a typewriter, have 8-tracks, etc.)

Not all of us are paying for our TV reception. I dropped satellite TV in December 2005 and have saved US$1,615.00 so far, that I used toward more worthwhile entertainment options.

I use a roof TV antenna, and I receive more free TV signals than ever before. Yep, it's... umm... Digital TV.

Those foolish enough to pay for bottled water (tap water from somewhere else) get what they deserve!

Sorry, just had to respond to the bottled water comment.

Boy, broadcast television I have to pay for? I cant wait!

The idea that "free" broadcast TV will disappear is silly. Some form of advertiser supported television (and radio) will always be with us. Advertisers need a vehicle, and broadcast TV is perfect for them. Remember that "free" TV is not free - we pay for it every day when we buy toothpaste, cereal, or any other product.

When 80% are paying for "free" TV it's not free any more. All that will end up really being free will be the channels that just have lots of advertising on them. It could be end up being all of their broadcast time. We already have that with shopping channels. Advertisers already are paying to be on "cable networks". The problem is the cable neworks are able to get money from both the viewer and advertisers so their programming will be better they will be able to pay for it. Broadcast TV will not disapper but most of the users of it will.

USA Today article on the death of Analog TV signal!

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/product...TV-cover_N.htm


polaraman

Comments from the article:

That last quote is quite a zinger. I hope the person does not actually believe that. (Of course, I just saw an adverstisement for a "physic fair", on TV, some people will believe anything"

There are a lot of people who have TVs in there bedrooms, workshops, etc, that are still just on antenna while their main TV is on cable or satellite. Unless new TVs are purchased, the loss of the analog signal will kill this. As far as completely loosing their free TV, I think people in rural areas are at greatest risk. With analog, at least you can get a snowy picture at long distances. With digital, (even though you have the new digital TV) you will probably get nothing.

To me, the whole thing is just another way for the large corporations to make money at the little guy's expense. A bad idea all around.

I already have a digital tuner hooked to some of my old sets on an antenna. I get the local channels with pretty good reception, but the comment about pixalization in quote one is very true. The sound also quits, while on the analog signal, the sound is present, even with a very weak and snowy picture.

That last quote is quite a zinger. I hope the person does not actually believe that. (Of course, I just saw an adverstisement for a "physic fair", on TV, some people will believe anything"

There are a lot of people who have TVs in there bedrooms, workshops, etc, that are still just on antenna while their main TV is on cable or satellite. Unless new TVs are purchased, the loss of the analog signal will kill this. As far as completely loosing their free TV, I think people in rural areas are at greatest risk. With analog, at least you can get a snowy picture at long distances. With digital, (even though you have the new digital TV) you will probably get nothing.

To me, the whole thing is just another way for the large corporations to make money at the little guy's expense. A bad idea all around.

I already have a digital tuner hooked to some of my old sets on an antenna. I get the local channels with pretty good reception, but the comment about pixalization in quote one is very true. The sound also quits, while on the analog signal, the sound is present, even with a very weak and snowy picture.

Up here in the Great White North, incandescent bulbs will be phased out in 2012.
No idea on digital Television and the standards. My guess Canada will hang on to the analog format a bit longer than 2009. I guess that means my 1989 RCA colortrack 2000 will have to hang on a bit longer.

The new energy efficent bulbs do use qute a bit less electricity and last a long time, but each one contains a small amount of mercury. This makes them more harmful to the enviroment than the old incandescent bulbs when discarded. Does Canada have a plan to recycle the incandescent bulb replacements?

They are already covered under guidelines for disposal of toxic/harmful substances, so yes.

I am glad that Canada has had the forsight to do this. In the US, I think California is also going to ban incandescents. I hope they also have a plan.

Here in Texas, no ban and no plan exist at present. The nearest place to recycle these is 40 miles away from me at an Ikea store(the store's idea, not Texas).

In rural areas of Texas/Oklahoma it is common (although against the law) to see trash in the roadside gullies, so some of the Mercury will end up in the enviroment. Probably not a drop in the bucket compared to all of the motor oil that has been put into the ground in the last 75 years though.

---

Welcome to the nanny state....

If they do I will stock up on incandescents. Flourescent lamps hurt my wife's eyes and our opthalmologist will attest to that fact, so the government can kiss my a,,,. The builder put a flourescent fixture over the kitchen sink, not finding what we wanted I used parts to make an incandescent fixture and put the old one over a workbench, since they don't bother me.

All of this environmental crap really frosts me. We have installed an energy efficient heat pump, appliances, had the house built with 2 x 6 exterior walls and equivalent insulation years ago, now they are talking tax breaks, what timing. We did it because the electric companies here in the US are bandits. When I lived in Nepean (Ottawa) they billed me every second month because it was not worth sending someone around to read the meter each month.

[QUOTE=merrylander;1286939]If they do I will stock up on incandescents. Flourescent lamps hurt my wife's eyes and our opthalmologist will attest to that fact, so the government can kiss my a,,,. The builder put a flourescent fixture over the kitchen sink, not finding what we wanted I used parts to make an incandescent fixture and put the old one over a workbench, since they don't bother me.

Have you tried a flouresent fixture with a high frequency ballast transformer? I know someone who was getting headaches with standard 60 cycle ballasts, the expensive ones switch at around 20,000 cycles and stops flicker and her headaches.

True although we still have the AM band for this. I think the point is that we are selling off a very limited resource because of the "Wal*Mart mentality" in order to make a buck. I'm not against making a buck but there are times that the public interests should be above that. I just think that we should have both systems going at once and for once let the people decide. If at some point NTSC goes away, well, that could happen or if HDTV never catches on, well, I think the FCC should set aside some channels and let the people decide. I hear HDTV sales are not doing as well so who knows, maybe 2009, NTSC will still be around beyond the shutoff date.

Hmmm, if I could, I'd load up the old Explorer with incandescent lightbulbs and go up north to Canada and sell them. :scratch2: Maybe I could start my own black market syndicate. Heck with drugs and booze, I could make a mint selling old style light bulbs in Canada and bring down 3.5 gallon toilets and sell them here in the U.S.:D

Great idea, except that the compact fluorescent bulbs are selling very well up here due to higher energy costs to the consumer.....but if you got something else to trade for our big flush toilets, then please do so. :D :thmbsp:

But I might have to load up on incandescent flood lamps for outdoor use. CFL's don't work worth a shit in our winters.

ATSC/DTV STBs....
 

I finally found a Samsung HD STB. After months of looking, finally seems like the most appropriate word.

Get this: in my neck of the woods, CBC broadcasts digitally in 1080i, irrespective of programming source. So when they transmit 480 programming, the picture is a box, inside a letterbox. When I put the box on "zoom" it swells the picture up too much, making things worse. I tried every combination of screen size and zoom, to no avail. SD will be in a smaller letterbox screen. Although, if I use the "16x9" mode where the tv shrinks the raster down vertically, an SD picture is even smaller albeit correctly proportioned. The HD (already in letterbox) programming though looks good in 480i and on the TV's 16x9 mode.

Although this box seems to work well off a simple UHF hoop, the composite output does not feature the OSD menus and displays, which is only available on the component output.

Either way, my collection of classic Sony TV's will be relegated to bordered 60% screens and letterboxes. It will be a very cool day in hell when I buy an ILO, or PRIMO LCD from Sprawlmart.

Blame Kyoto Accord for the light bulb fiasco. I've had some CFLs "pop" without warning when powered on and they don't run cool like they've advertised. 90% of the power in my area is hydroelectrically generated, which is already "green" compared to coal.

Anyone ever place their hand in front of a large plasma tv? All that heat dissipating from the panel, thats got to be good an' green for the environment.

satellite TV such as dish network or direcTV has a shitload of locals that come down the dish.

but the FCC rulled no distant locals, so if your caught in between local markets, your screwed.

Unintended consequences of new technology
 

[QUOTE=Richard D;1287147][QUOTE=merrylander;1286939]

"Have you tried a flouresent fixture with a high frequency ballast transformer? I know someone who was getting headaches with standard 60 cycle ballasts..."

But how will you be able to properly set the speed of your turntable using a 60 cycle strobe disk with a 20kHz fluorescent light??

First you get a big 12 digit calculator, then you divide 20,000 by 60, no that's not right, you multiply 60 times the distance between the stylus and the center of the platter, wait, no that's not right, uhh, I KNOW! you turn on the neon lamp that came on the side of your turntable :):thmbsp: