That's what I'm guessing, is maybe poor storage conditions, because even on that old GE 9T001 TV of mine which is at least 5 years older than this Philco it didn't have any peeling coating on it at all. But I figured though that this TV had to be worth buying and saving because it seemed like a fairly uncommon unit and the cabinet was still in good shape with very little wear except on the tuning knobs and the built-in bunny-ears where even still intact which is very rare to see on any TV of this vintage.

How much do you think a set like this is worth restored? Just curious.

That's amazing! So I'm guessing that I got this TV for a steal then for $15... :scratch2:

Just curious but what if the aquadag is still intact around where the grounding tabs are at, but just flaking around the areas away from the grounding tabs, could the set still be used safely that way until I could get some money saved up to properly redo the aquadag coating on the back? I would probably only use the set very sparingly until I could redo it properly.

Also Just so you know the grounding strips for the aquadag material is 4 metallic coated cardboard strips that are located one at each of the 4 corners of the picture tube.

Update: I took a look at the rest of the tubes inside the TV which about 95% of the tubes in the TV are the original Philco "Cool Chassis TV" Branded tubes and they all tested good yet (around 100+ each time on the emissions test), and then there was a Amperex Bugle Boy tube and then there's a Sylvania tube Both of them of which are in the tuner section the rest of them are the original Philco Branded tubes, and then once I replace the 6FD7 tube that will make 3 tubes in the set that aren't original which is pretty good for a tv that age, speaking of which I looked at the date code on the tubes on the TV and they have a date code of 1962 on it so the TV is apparently from 1962 or 1963.

So I got the 6FD7 tube today in the mail and installed it into the TV and I got full picture again (its full going vertically and horizontally) but I've noticed that I can't get a signal from my source to lock in (its just a mess of white noise and horizontal rolling bars going across the screen at a slight angle), I could get the audio from the source to come in but not the video from the source (I was using a super nintendo with the RF Modulator attachment via a 300 ohm to 75 Ohm adaptor using channel 3) and the only signal I could get to lock in was the audio but not the video, Is this something to do with the black coating peeling off the back of the picture tube or is it something else? I've tested all of the tubes inside the tv and they all tested good, so maybe its due for a recap?
Although I would of figured I would of gotten at least something... :scratch2:

Try using a different signal source, VCR or DTV convertor.
If I have trouble with a signal source, I try switching the RF out on the VCR, 3/4 switch, usually on the back.
The tuner might need cleaning, because of the poor storage conditions. The contacts seem to corrode more the when stored in a home. :sigh:

Well I figured out part of my problem, I was apparently using the wrong fine tuning knob, I was using the fine tuning knob for the UHF instead of the VHF Fine tuning knob (I thought that maybe since my old 1957 GE Television used a single fine tuning knob for UHF and VHF that it was also that way on this Philco as well, but apparently not, it uses seperate fine tuning knobs for each band) and I was able to get somewhat of a picture (although the vertical and horizontal hold wouldn't lock in when I was trying to adjust it) and I also noticed that whenever I would adjust the horizontal hold control it would cause arcing inside the picture tube (you could even hear and see it arcing because it would make snapping noises and the screen would react funny.) And then after a little bit the screen's vertical collaped on me again (and yes Electronic M this time when it did it I made sure to turn the Brightness and contrast down on the TV!) So I'm not sure what's going on with it because the audio is working perfectly hum free and everything. And the 6FD7 is still good yet, but yet the vertical sweep has collapsed on the TV (it actually did it twice to me, the first time it did it to me I immediately shut the TV off after turning down the brightness and contrast, and then took the tube out and tested it and it tested fine) so then I reinstalled the tube into the TV plugged it in and turned it back on and sure enough the vertical sweep kicked back in like it was supposed to and I had a full screen (but still no picture from my signal source but plenty of audio from it) which is when I decided to try and see if the VHF knob itself had a fine tuning knob around it and sure enough it did and that was when I was able to get a signal lock but the vertical and horizontal hold wouldn't lock so I tried adjusting them and it didn't make much difference.

EDIT: I was able to get the vertical and Horizontal hold to lock in but then the picture was looking kind of splochy and from what I could see it looked almost like there was two video images ontop of each other with a thick horizontal bar inbetween almost as if the vertical hold still wasn't completely locked in yet, and I tried using my converter box to give me a more reliable solid picture and I couldn't get my converter box to respond or give me a signal and then yet again the vertical sweep dropped out again, so I don't know what is going on.

That arcing is an indicator of the aquadag needing a recoat. Knock the loose pieces of dag off and recoat over the rest trying to keep the new dag in the outer bounds of the original dag. You risk an implosion if it is arcing between points on the dag.

The vertical is probably either collapsing from an intermittent open or a cap that is border line. The 'overlapped image with horizontal bar' sounds like the vertical osc. is running and syncing at a multiple of it's designed 60Hz frequency....It's probably at 120Hz and news commentators heads are being scanned on to the same patch of screen as their chests....If it was 30Hz (the second most likely case) there would be two identical images, one on top half of screen the other on the bottom with the vertical sync bar and closed caption stripes separating them. Vert. osc. frequency issues are normally caused by bad caps or resistors.

OK, well here's a picture of what I was talking about that the TV is doing and I will definitely try to recoat when I can get a chance and can get the money to get some of the paint, and I won't run it until I get that fixed.

So how is it that the vertical oscillator can start running at 120 Hz instead of 60 hz?

At this point, a copy of the schematic would be very helpful.... I believe that it can be found in Sams 650, folder #2.
If this set uses a circuit similar to "slender seventeeners" and predictas of the era, you will find a fairly large cap ( .15 to .22 uf or so) connected near the cathode circuit of the 6dr7/6de7 (pin 8) to the vertical hold pot.... I would consider replacing it first.

jr

Thanks, I think I might actually have a couple of those laying around too so I'll give it a try. :yes:

It appears to be running at 30Hz. Causes tend to be capacitors and or resistors changing value (or on recapped sets having parts replaced by .1X or 10X the original value by mistake during a recap)....Capacitors can drift high or low (or leak enough to change RC time constants), and resistors normally drift high. In most vertical oscillators the operating frequency is determined purely by RC (resistor-capacitor) time constants....When the Rs and Cs drift so too does the frequency....

OK, well I'm guessing its probably bad capacitors then because I've not touched any of the original capacitors and I don't think this TV has ever been recapped ever in its history so I'll probably check some of the capacitors out in the TV and change out the ones that need to be changed that are associated with the vertical stage (as the horizontal stage is fine except for the arcing issue with the horizontal hold control when its adjusted which is because of the peeling aquadag in the back of the picture tube.)

Update:
I took the chassis out of the cabinet (as best as I could because the speaker and the picture tube ground wire are still holding it to the cabinet and I can't figure out how to get those wires loose without damaging them beyond repair) and it looks like there are 4 capacitors near the vertical output/amplifier stage of which one of them does look like it might of been replaced at one point in time in its history as it has a splice in the upper side of the capacitor where the cap is bent over to feed into the circuit board, all the others look original and untouched. Should I maybe replace those 4 capacitors nearest the vertical output/amplifier tube and see where it takes me and then worry about the rest of the capacitors later if the picture is improved after replacing the 4 capacitors nearest the vertical stage?

[/QUOTE] well I'm guessing its probably bad capacitors then because I've not touched any of the original capacitors and I don't think this TV has ever been recapped ever in its history so I'll probably check some of the capacitors out in the TV and change out the ones that need to be changed that are associated with the vertical stage (as the horizontal stage is fine except for the arcing issue with the horizontal hold control when its adjusted which is because of the peeling aquadag in the back of the picture tube.)[/QUOTE]


Sooner or later, those you will not have changed, you must also change. So it is always better to change now all for that matter! ...( all your capacitors ) :D

well I'm guessing its probably bad capacitors then because I've not touched any of the original capacitors and I don't think this TV has ever been recapped ever in its history so I'll probably check some of the capacitors out in the TV and change out the ones that need to be changed that are associated with the vertical stage (as the horizontal stage is fine except for the arcing issue with the horizontal hold control when its adjusted which is because of the peeling aquadag in the back of the picture tube.)[/QUOTE]


Sooner or later, those you will not have changed, you must also change. So it is always better to change now all for that matter! ...( all your capacitors ) :D[/QUOTE]

I was planning on doing so, If the 4 capacitors near the vertical stage are the only ones I have in my stock without having to put in an order then that's all I can do for the time being.

[/QUOTE]I was planning on doing so, If the 4 capacitors near the vertical stage are the only ones I have in my stock without having to put in an order then that's all I can do for the time being.[/QUOTE]


Okay . However, before removing the other caps, take care to note the data from each capacitor and change them one by one at a time so as not to mislead you and especially not reconnect the wrong way. some also have a degree of heat to meet. I suppose that you know what i write :scratch2: lol . :D