Issue with transferring PAL VHS to my computer
 

Hello VK friends,
I'm mostly an AK dweller but I'm hoping someone here can point me in the right direction with a video issue.

I just bought a PAL VCR bundled with all the extras to use here in the US. I have loads of PAL tapes that I recorded while living in the Czech Republic 1998-2003.

When I set myself up to capture the video onto my computer the video image looks great while recording. But when I am finished capturing the playback image has spots where color streaks appear that weren't there while recording. These streaks appear on the finished, rendered file. I've recorded three videos so far. The first one has this issue a lot. The second video is fine. This last video has the issue mildly in spots. All three videos looked perfect while recording.

So what might be causing this? Any suggestions what to do to fix this?

Thanks.

Can you link to some pictures? Hard to guess withut seeing it.

What software are you using on your computer? What PAL capture card do you have?
:worthless

I am using a program by a company called Honestech called VHS-to-DVD 7.0. I do not have a outboard video card.

When I open the program it shows a page where I can select PAL or NTSC.

The PAL VCR I bought comes with a PAL>NTSC converter box to use the player on a US TV. I was going to try using that converter between the PAL player and the Honestech capture device and try capturing in NTSC. But that will downgrade the overall quality and I was hoping to avoid that.

I also have a program that came with the computer called Cyberlink Power Director 10 I might try.

Here is a example of the problem. It's a sort of "ripping" or "tearing" effect especially when camera moves side to side or subject moves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQAuULxhY-Q

Interlace issue.

Yes, and not just interlace, but something to do with motion detection and frame rate conversion. The capture hardware/firmware/software is just terrible, or has some wrong settings (if any are available).

Sorry to say I don't think you're going to get good results out of a low cost USB based capture device, I did look this one up and while it may be suitable for the home amateur I'd look into something far more robust for the serious work such as yours. I did look at the video and while the jitter was horrendous the actual source material looks quite good so you have something that's worthy of a better capture medium but this is going to need a good fiscal investment and while others here will argue I'd recommend something that is not USB based and editing software that actually supports the capture device.

Thank you for your replies.

Since my last post I have discovered that the Honestech software can be set to NTSC and if a PAL signal is sent it will convert it. As suspected the final result isn't as sharp but all that other ripping and tearing business is gone.

I can live with this for now. I'll post an example as soon as I get it uploaded.

Just uploaded;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG-b9QyAmD4

That looks FAR FAR better! Wow I'm impressed at the overall quality of both the source and capture, I'd leave things the way they are now as this is right on.

The tapes have been stored in my home since returning from the Czech Republic in 2004. I have also been cleaning the tapes by using another deck to FF/REW them while holding a piece of Hoppe's 9 Silicone Gun Cloth against the play side. I then repeat with a piece of clean, dry fabric. I've been doing this with audio tape for a couple of years now and it works wonders with videotapes too.

First, why are your videos in 480p30 when then original had been PAL 625/50? You need to capture into D1 frame, 720x576 @ 25i, then deinterlace into 50p. This will preserve temporal resolution and will get rid of combing and ghosting.

To preserve 50p on Youtube, you need to upscale to at least 720 lines, that is, you would be upscaling into someting like 960x720p50.

If you are new to this, there are boxes that can convert into 720p50 for you in one go, but they will also add black pillars on the sides to hold the 4:3 picture in a 16:9 frame.

Second, verify that your levels and saturation are correct. The picture looks too saturated and too high-contrast to me, but need waveform and vectorscope to verify.

Third, judging by the channel ident, you need to shift chroma to the left a great deal.

Fourth, the video looks patchy, somewhat posterized, too coarse, not enough detail. Make sure you have enough bitrate.

Deinterlacing into 50p, correct levels and healthy bitrate should significantly improve what you have now.

This is how consumer-grade analog video can look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLN3a10zCY Granted, it has been shot with a semi-pro high-band camcorder. Still, something to strive for :) So far it is the best VHS/8mm video I've seen on Youtube.

I have recorded this with a PAL VHS camcorder (not SVHS), does not look as great as the video above, still at least the motion is preserved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQDaFFg3QM

Thank you for your suggestions. I will look into this further as time permits.

I have poked around within my current software and figured out how to apply some of the advice provided by @DVtyro including deinterlacing.

I am currently rendering a fresh capture of The Jazz Yatra Sextet which I uploaded last week. I can see it looks much much better as it renders. Hopefully the resultant file will demonstrate an improvement. I will update later.

Set the player at 1080p.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfjaOXpuxGc

I redid the Donovan piece in 1080p and deinterlaced it. MUCH better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfeX-1lv-7w

I tried setting capture to PAL to make a PAL DVD but despite setting 1080p and deinterlacing it still had the same problems as before. Something in my chain isn't processing PAL. But I think these NTSC files look great.

It is unfortunate that you cannot produce 50p with your workflow. See how the woman on the back has four lenses, this is not because of slow shutter speed, but because of field blending. See the fascia of the roof on the back, it has coarse stairstepping and also double images. Also, converting 25i to 30p causes irregular judder. It can look better :) Although if it looks good to you, that is all that matters.

https://i.ibb.co/P6w6Zzq/donovan-01.jpg

I see that you are using Honestech software. I wonder can it produce true interlaced video? There are different versions, the one that I've used could only do 25p or 30p. But at least you should be able to produce 25p for youtube, the motion will look slightly better, the stutter will be more regular. Caution: 25p will likely not play on an old American DVD player if it is not a multi-region one, for it you need either 30i or 30p.

Can you share your full workflow? Do you produce 1080p files with Cyberlink? Can you do MediaInfo on the file you obtain with the Honestech?

Can you set the VCR to output PAL, set Honestech to PAL, set it to highest quality, and record 10-20 seconds and upload it somewhere, just for kicks?

In my work place we used the Tandberg C-60 for video conferencing system. That have in and out NTSC 480i, and European systems, along with HDMI and DVI to 1080p. S-Video included. Too bad that is outrageously (obscenely) expensive, but the conversion quality of that is far superior to almost anything I see; almost textbook perfect. For each direction and any PC resolution to 1080p or i, and vice versa, excellent for converting 1080p video to 480i with extra professional results. I wish to have one for conversion of old videos etc. And for using new content with old TV's (as an option).

The SONY VCR I am using is a PAL only deck that came bundled with various attachments for USA use. The unit has a SCART OUT and a SCART > RCA adapter if that matters.

Connect via RCA cables to Honestech capture device.

Open up Honestech software and choose Advance Mode. Set Capture Format to MPEG-2 & TV/Video Standard to NTSC. Recording Resolution 720x480 [highest option].

When ready to output I choose "User Defined Settings" then HD MPEG. Format: MPEG 2, Resolution: 1920X1080 [1280X720 also an option], Aspect Ratio 4:3. Then I click "Advanced" and I choose "deinterlace [source]". Sample rate 44.1 Khz [also options for 48 & 32 Khz], Bitrate 320 [380 also an option].

However I think the Donovan clip was done at 224 bitrate. I tried 320 on the upload after that one here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XsvxMsi24A&t=2295s

I have tried doing everything I listed above [224 bitrate] and setting to PAL in Honestech but I got the same problems I described in the OP: color streaks and combing.

Why NTSC? Can you do PAL 720x576? Can you run MediaInfo on the captured file?

Which software is that? Does it offer deinterlacing options (single field, blend, bob) or target frame rate (25/30 or 50/60) ?

Why MPEG-2? Although this is the least of your worries.

"I have tried doing everything I listed above [224 bitrate] and setting to PAL in Honestech but I got the same problems I described in the OP: color streaks and combing."

Honestech is the only software I'm using. No deinterlacing options. I thought MPEG-2 was the highest quality.

The options to capture are;

VCD, SVCD, DVD, DVD DL, Long DVD, Long DVD DL, WMV, MPEG-1 and MPEG-2.

I don't think Honestech can deliver proper interlaced video. I have Honestech VHS to DVD 3.0 SE, and could not make it produce interlaced video, all I was getting was 30p. But it does have both NTSC and PAL settings.

Why would not you try other software? Are you on Windows? You can try VirtualDub (or VirtualDub2, it offers more container options and has built-in Cineform codec), or AmarecTV. Do not use OBS. You will need to install codecs to capture into to your liking, MPEG-2 is not included.

MPEG-2 is used for DVDs, but who really authors DVDs these days?

This is my workflow (Youtube video), I don't suggest you to follow it to the T, but maybe you want to take a cursory look. Ideally, you should capture 25i. Then you would make a 50p deliverable for Youtube, then if you really want you can convert 50p into 30i to burn to a DVD to play on an NTSC player, it will look better than converted from 25p.

So, there are two tasks at hand:

1. Capture analog video as close to its original form as possible, this includes the interlaced structure of the video.
2. Render the video in a format appropriate to the delivery platform.
   • DVD video does not support 50p/60p, so you need to author as interlaced for DVD.
   • Youtube does not deinterlace correctly, so you need to author as 50p or 60p. Also, Youtube turns 50p/60p on for resolutions with 720 lines and higher.

So...

First, make sure you have captured interlaced video. You can load it into VirtualDub, turn on double frame rate deinterlacing as I show in my video linked above, and make sure that your captured video is indeed interlaced.

Second, to deliver for youtube you need to deinterlace. To preserve the motion, you need to deinterlace your PAL video to 50p. I started the Honestech software that I have, VHS to DVD 3.0 SE. It has these settings:

https://i.ibb.co/64RJZ2X/honestech-options.png

As you can see, it does not go higher than 30p. At best you can have either 30i or 30p, but not 50p or 60p. (NTSC is 29.97 frames/s or 59.94 fields/s, also 59.94 frames/s for HD).

Interlacing and deinterlacing options are checkboxes, not radiobuttons. I guess, this means that you can deinterlace your source footage, then re-interlace it if needed.

In any case, 30 fps is the limit, not good enough. But this is my version, yours may look different. If you can choose 50p, please do. Check "Deinterlace source", uncheck "Interlace Encoding".

Have not had time recently to play with my tapes. I will look into the info in the last couple of posts shortly. Thanks for all the help!

:thmbsp: