A bazillion questions about crt rebuilds....
 

If you've had a 21 inch round crt rebuilt, how did it come out? was it all you hoped? Did the purity and convergence still set up ok when you got it back?

If it was a 21fj, did they fix the cataract? Were you able to ship it across the country without getting it broken? How did you pack it? What carrier did you use?

And finally, who rebuilt it?

I have a 21fbp22 in a Silvertone thats getting pretty soft. Are the odds of success pretty good?

The tube isnt that horrible, but it's a long way from good.

Whaddaya think, should I do it?

John C.

I think that VDC (video display corp) used to rebuild the round tubes but unfortunately I don't think they are doing it anymore.
Hawkeye may do the round tubes but I'm not sure.
From what I've heard people have been very satisfied with the results from VDC...they would remove the PVA bonding material and reattach safety glass around edges, thus turning a 21FJP22 into a 21FBP22.

I found Hawkeye on the web. I guess I'll call them and see. Arent they the ones working on the 15gp22 project?

jc

Rebuilds
 

Yes, they are one element of a team working on the 15GP22 rebuild. They rebuild as far back as the 21AXP22.

Well I drug the Silvertone out of storage last week, intending to get the 21fbp22 rebuilt. I called Hawkeye and talked to Scotty, he says they can do it. :) Now all I have to figure out is how to get this giant bottle to Iowa. Scotty doesnt have crates for these, so I went to the UPS store to ask if they could pack it. I had to explain to them what a picture tube is. They said "we dont pack anything fragile, it has to be able to survive machine handling and a 4 foot drop" I went to another one and they said "were not set up to pack anything that large."

I'm thinking of putting it on a Greyhound. I'll check a couple of more places on Monday, but it looks like I'll probably be packing this myself, and I don't know how. :headscrat

Has anyone done this?

John

I have an unused NOS CRT (21JP22) that I recently installed in a set. The way it was packed was in a regular cardboard box, with some padding in the bottom where the screen was. The most important part of the package was a piece of cardboard that fit snugly in the box with a small hole for the tube neck. This helped protect the tube from moving around.

I have not shipped by Greyhound but I figure that should be pretty safe, it will just be in the cargo areas of the busses and should not have to be moved around on conveyer belts, etc.

The most important part of packing anything is to prevent any movement of the cargo inside the box.

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Chad- DId the hole fit tightly around the neck? What contacted the neck, the edge of the cardboard? Was there something to spread the load around where it contacts the neck?

Andy- About $300

John

On some I've seen (not color roundies) the contact is farther down, on the bell. That piece of cardboard is a sturdy arrangement, folded so it can't go anywhere. I don't think there was anything around the neck. I don't think I would want any possible transfer of energy at that point.

I'll need to double check...the cardboard collar was likely at a more substantial point on the tube than the end of the neck.

I have a brand new RCA rectangular pikchure toob in it's original box (part of a unbuilt Heathkit set) and I can confirm that it has a cardboard insert that effectively supports the neck....if memory serves, it is where the neck meets the wider portion of the "bell" of the tube.

See below crude illustrations for details

And here's what the cardboard support looks like....you'll note that it's just a sheet of cardboard with the edges folded up (or down as your persepective may be) and a hole in the center.

My rebuilds were done by VDC in Dallas, and I was very pleased. Cost was 170 bucks. Since I am 6 hours from Dallas, I took them there myself. Unfortunately, due to the Dallas facility recently closing, VDC will no longer be rebuilding the roundies. They were probably the cheapest as far as pricing was concerned.

For shipping, VDC was placing the tube in a box, then strapping the box in the center of a wooden pallet. They told me they had no problem shipping them this way.

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i was trying to find out info on the rebuild mentioned above and came across this link,it might help with ideas for shipping

charlie

http://home.att.net/~pldexnis/potpou...P22carton.html

Another trick I've seen used is to put a trash bag in the box and fill it with expanding foam. Makes a form-fitting cushion that keeps the object stationary. We used to get refurb'd monitors that way, one bag in the bottom, fill it a couple of inches and let it dry, then add the monitor face down and fill around it. Add another bag on top and fill it to stabalize the upper half. It's the motion of the contents that make the most damage ..... well, except for crushing of the box in the first place.

ha1156w
 

...love that 'flatlander' animation! LOL

Thank you everyone!!

While looking for boxes and packing materials yesterday, I found someone who says he can pack it. I haven't taken out the tube yet because the sams arrived yesterday from bgadow (thanks Bryan), and I wanted to look at some voltages before I tear it apart. I intend to nitpick the chassis for drifted resistors and the like while the tube is away, and get parts ordered.

With any luck, I can get the tube out by this weekend. I'll go down there Monday armed with all the above graphics, and the tube. I've got a good feeling about this now. I think we can get it there in one piece. :D

He wants to ship it on DHL. I might do that, or stick it on a bus.

I'll keep everyone posted, and again many thanks.

John

I've done some research and it seems that overall FedWrex is the cheapest for larger packages....UPS, DHL, and the post orifice really rape you when it comes to oversize packages. Having said that, I'm not familiar with the Greyhound rates so you should check them against FedEx. Good luck!

Anthony

I sent a crt via DHL, coast to coast for less than Greyhound & only a few days. But it was smaller than this so may not have been subject to an oversize penalty.

Honk! Honk! The shoe-tree has shronk!

Shoe-tree? I thought the honking was from Wobbles the Goose(NLRH)

Anthony (lets see how sharp y'all are to finger out that reference!)

Ha! Didn't think any of ya guys would ever guess!

I took the tube out of the Silvertone today, and hauled it down to the guy who is going to pack it, along with all the graphics above. It should be packed by tomorrow afternoon. I think he's gonna do something like the 15gp22 one, add also double box it. The tube weighed a lot less than I expected (easy to lift).
:banana:

I tested a bunch of the small tubes tonight, most were bad. Most tubes in the sweep, HV, and color matrix tested good. Almost everything else was weak. Even my brand new horizontal oscillator tube tested on the low end of good. Hmm... :headscrat it might be time for a tube tester race.....

jc

I talked to Scotty today, and my tube has arrived at Hawkeye - in one piece!

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1:banana:http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1 :banana:http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1

I shipped it Greyhound Package Express. I guess it is possible to ship something like this across the country. :D

I'll keep everyone posted,

John

Shipper's terms may be more important than price.
 

Anthony, that's probably true, but I had an interesting (and unsettling) conversation about shipping with Chuck Pharis the other day. If I'm remembering the details correctly, he said that recently Fedex was happy to take his money to insure a shipment, but refused to pay after destroying it. They didn't disagree that they damaged it, only that they weren't obligated to pay since it was "irreplacable". (Seems to me that whether or not an item is irreplacable, if an accurate value can be defined, as would be the case in shipping a documented purchase, why would it matter whether or not the item can be replaced? The financial loss is the same whether you can get another one or not.) To pour salt in the wound, I believe he said that although they refunded the shipping charge, they refused to refund the insurance fee they had charged for the coverage they were not providing.

I researched the Fedex website and found only one small reference to this, an exclusion of coverage for "The shipment of fluorescent tubes, neon lighting, neon signs, X-ray tubes, laser tubes, light bulbs, quartz crystal, quartz lamps, glass tubes such as those used for specimens, and glass containers such as those used in laboratory test environments. " I couldn't find any reference anywhere to excluding coverage for items that were irreplacable. I had been previously advised that the Post Office is the only carrier that will knowingly accept glass items such as picture tubes for shipment. I hadn't considered the Greyhound option. Sounds like the safest bet to me.

Perhaps Chuck can weigh in on this with an accurate, first-person account. I had NEVER heard this particular flavor of horror story before and I'm flabbergasted (I love it when I get to use that word!) that they may be continuing to take our money with the knowledge that they will never be forced to provide the service we're paying for.

That having been said, I've shipped dozens and dozens of fragile items including picture tubes by all the major carriers and have had only one item damaged in transit (and that happened to be something made of thick steel!!!) but I am a rabid packer and have had some people "complain" that it took them longer to get the item out of the box than it did to install it in their car/TV/whatever. Double boxing is a pain in the butt, but it's the easiest way to protect against nearly any "permissable" mishandling. Building a wooden crate out of scrap lumber and drywall screws takes quite a bit of time but doesn't cost much and is nearly bulletproof.

My current pet peeve is people who seem to work hard to find a box just barely exactly large enough to hold the radio or whatever that they're shipping and snug it in there with absolutely no cushioning whatsoever. I've received several items this way in the past year, surprisingly only about half of them were damaged.

Perhaps this subject has been covered in earlier threads. If not, are there any attorneys, shipping professionals or Fedex employees in the group who would care to comment on how we can keep from losing both our treasures and our money in the event of a problem?

--Dave

I think part of the problem is that the clerk who accepts your package (and added insurance) is not aware of the specifics of what's covered or not.....and to explain all the exemptions is problematic in a rushed business environment. I'm not excusing them, just trying to understand what's happening in a real world situation.

For them to have coverage exclusions they MUST inform you of them BEFORE you accept their terms.....just like it's your responsibility to read the fine print of a contract.....but in this case they're not even SHOWING you the contract so I feel they shot themselves in the foot regardless of their boilerplate because you weren't privy to the exclusions or regulations until after you put in a claim. Bottom line, they owe you for the damage regardless of them denying it because they never told you the terms. Take it before a jury and see what happens! :-)

Anthony

Its baaack!!
 

and in one piece!
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1 http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachm...1252&stc=1

All the way to Iowa and back on Greyhound. Actually, I'ts been sitting in the bus station for a week. Apparently Greyhound left messages for me at work, but I never got them. I went down there on my lunch hour to advise them I had another package coming, and both of them were sitting there. :)

Today I got to see how it was packed. Hawkeye used the same packaging to return it. It was double boxed, with inch-thick styrofoam strips between the inner and outer box. I also think it was crammed with peanuts between the foam strips on the way out, but not on the way back.

When I got the inner box open, heres what I saw...

Actually, there were some styrofoam strips there also, holding that grid thing tight. Underneath the grid was one of these..

And underneath that thing, a bunch of shredded cardboard...

And underneath that is the box I hauled it down to the shipper in. They cut it to fit and taped it shut around the tube.

The white stuff underneath it is soft foam, about an inch thick. Hopefully to prevent scratching the screen.

AIn't it purdy? :D I can't wait to put it in.

John

Yay! :banana: :thmbsp: :D I wonder if that foam is anything like that stuff they make those Tempurpedic beds out of.....that might be ideal in this case....very soft, smooth (scratch free) and absorbs an incredible amount of shock without transferring the energy.

I'm going to have a motorcycle seat stuffed with a layer of it, might be good for car seats too. Remember, you heard it here first! LOL

Anthony

Blue Lat:

Congrats on receiving your newly rebuilt crt in one piece! Exciting, isn't it?! I can understand your enthusiasm about getting it installed asap. Of course, we'll be just as excited about seeing pics once you get it installed.

I was very pleased with the jugs I had rebuilt in Dallas. I only wish the VDC facility in Dallas was still open. Those people were really nice to deal with and ya couldn't beat the price... $170.00. It's a shame they closed their doors.

How much did you have to spend total for your tube (shipping, rebuilding, etc)?

(Hmm... That shredded cardboard reminds me of something... Hmm...)

Ah, here we go. Looks like Hawkeye Picture Tube shops locally for
their packing material! :thmbsp:

http://www.corrugatedsolutions.biz/

I guess if it can be used to pack eggs, it can be used to pack picture tubes..!

Anyway, cool that you got the CRT back safe and sound-- you'll have to let us know how it works once you've tried 'er out!

Yeah, I can hardly wait to get it installed. It might be a little while before we see a raster on this, though. I had this plan that I was going to go through the chassis while the CRT was away, fix anything that was obviously broken, and align it. This was a working set, with a good picture (until very recently when the crt went downhill quite rapidly), there were just a few little things I knew weren't quite right. I didn't find much wrong with the chassis, but I found a whole bunch of tubes that were either gassy, h-k leaky, shorted, microphonic, or some combination. That surprised me. I replaced 3/4 of them last time around. Yeah, it was probably 25 years ago, but I don't watch much tv. Also most of the ones I replaced back then werent original, either. Sheesh. I've seen roundies with most of their original tubes.

Anyway I got sidetracked and haven't even ordered resistors, caps and tubes. I have my list, hopefully I can find time to do it tomorrow.

Total on the rebuild including packing, shipping etc. came to $550.53.

As for VDC, that was a great deal, especially since you and others on this list had such positive results. But a year ago I didn't have the money (or the time to take the set apart , or a place to do it).

Naw, It was just ordinary foam I got at the hardware store. :D I actually tried to buy that stuff you're talking about once (for a Maserati headliner of all things). It's really expensive, and they make you buy a whole bunch of it.

I guess it works! :) but I suspect It didn't come from Hawkeye, I never saw inside the inner box on the way out, though. I found someone who was willling to pack it locally, and I printed out all the box illustrations and links further up in this thread, and took them down there. I hoped the packing would be something Scotty would approve of for the return trip. He did.

On the same day I picked up the CRT, my new toy arrived on Greyhound - a Tektronix 535. It was like Chritsmas around here...

John

Yeah, Scotty apparently has boxes for lots of kinds of tubes, but not the 21" round color ones.

I got the rebuilt tube bolted in the cabinet last weekend, but the chassis still needs a little work. The second box of small tubes got here last friday. Since I am planning on aligning it, I'm replacing all the small tubes that tested bad. The box of capacitors and resistors hasn't arrived yet.

John

There are some companys here in miami that will pack almost anything using sheets of gray plastic. first they spray the bottom fo the box with hot foam in place liquid from a double nozzle gun then while the foam is expanding the lay the first sheet of plastic on top of it then the crt, so some of the foam rises above the face of the tube they then cover any exposed crt with plastic and the foam in the rest half way up the neck. That way there are no air gaps and the tube becomes packed in a giant shock absorber. Removal of the foam can be easy if none of the foam contacts the tube, then you are on an dig to get it out. If done right the the top foam lifts straight up and you can use the bottom one as an anti scratch pad for the face of the tube.
Richard.