Modulating VCRs?

[Outland]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone has one of those VCRs that passes a MV protected signal along to the RF output without destroying the picture (clearly while not recording) that they're not using?

I've heard that the Panasonic PV-4962 can do this, but I've never seen one. My Panasonic VCR ruins the picture.

This seems like the appropriate forum for asking this, but I could be wrong. If so, my apologies.

Thanks all.

[Jeffhs]

I never heard of that till now. The Macrovision signal, if present, is usually encoded onto commercial DVDs, not generated within the VCR itself. Your VCR must be an odd man out in this regard. Personally, I don't see the sense in generating the MV signal within the VCR and sending it over the RF modulator output. This would mean that all tapes played on that VCR, even home videos and other non-commercial tapes, would be MV protected by default, whether the user wanted this feature or not. I would think that any VCR having this particular feature would also have a defeat switch or some other means to disable it if the user decided he or she did not, for any reason, want to use it.

[Ed in Tx]

The Macrovision was recorded on the tape in the video vertical interval. I recall a VCR, a Hitachi-built GE in particular from mid '80s, that would strip out the Macrovision by inserting clean black horizontal lines over the Macrovision as well as the VIR signal. Like an external "video stabilizer" copy box. Thus the composite video out and likely the RF-modulated signal had no Macrovision or VIR signal in the video. As I recall the reason they did that was the timing errors (wow & flutter etc from the VCR playback) would screw with how the TV handled the VIR signal since it needed a stable time base to work right, if it ever did.

[Chip Chester]

Although not clearly stated, I believe the OP is pursuing a VCR that will accept a baseband video input (with Macrovision) and modulate it on the RF output without the Macrovision signal included... Signal would be passed on to a TV set for a 'more stable' display, or to another VCR for recording via RF in. Mod/demod to defeat MV. Some early decks apparently discarded and rebuilt the vertical interval, defeating the AGC-influencing versions of Macrovision.

The degradation of RF-RF dubbing remains an issue, though.

My apologies if I misinterpreted the OP's intent...

on edit... yup, like he said above me...

Chip

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by Chip Chester

Although not clearly stated, I believe the OP is pursuing a VCR that will accept a baseband video input (with Macrovision) and modulate it on the RF output without the Macrovision signal included...

Pretty sure the GE VCR I mentioned output a video signal stripped of the VIR and Macrovision out of the video and RF outputs to disable the TV's VIR when the VCR was being viewed, not just playing back a tape but also in video or tuner mode so the TV woudn't be switching in and out of VIR control. If that's what the OP needs then just be on the lookout for an old "Video Stabilizer-Enhancer" very popular at one time. Some had an RF modulator built-in.

[Outland]

Hey all,

I actually don't even care if the MV signal is passed with the video, I just want to be able to connect my DVD player to my RF-only TV without the VCR ruining the picture. I'd really like just one box to do everything, so I don't have to use a modulator.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

The Macrovision was recorded on the tape in the video vertical interval. I recall a VCR, a Hitachi-built GE in particular from mid '80s, that would strip out the Macrovision by inserting clean black horizontal lines over the Macrovision as well as the VIR signal. Like an external "video stabilizer" copy box. Thus the composite video out and likely the RF-modulated signal had no Macrovision or VIR signal in the video. As I recall the reason they did that was the timing errors (wow & flutter etc from the VCR playback) would screw with how the TV handled the VIR signal since it needed a stable time base to work right, if it ever did.

GE's VIR system on its high-end TVs of the '80s was indeed problematic, which is almost certainly why many if not most people never used the feature. One of my great-uncles had a GE VIR-equipped TV in the '80s, but I don't think he ever used it -- he may not have even realized the feature was on his TV in the first place, as the switch that enabled and disabled VIR was not that easy to find, if I remember the front panel of his set correctly.

"....it needed a stable time base to work right, if it (VIR) ever did." You are so right! As I mentioned above, VIR was a feature on high-end GE TVs of the 1980s that was supposed to automatically adjust color, tint, contrast, etc. of the color picture using a signal sent by the TV station in the vertical blanking interval. Sometimes it worked well, but much if not most of the time it did not, which is why many if not most owners of these sets left the VIR switch off and adjusted color, tint, etc. manually to suit their own tastes.

I believe GE discontinued the VIR feature on its high-end sets after only one or two model years, never being reinstated on newer sets -- and certainly not on "GE" branded flat screens, although there could be a special VIR-like signal in the digital streams of today's DTV signals since the pictures on most FS sets are very stable, rarely if ever requiring adjustments of the on-screen color and tint controls. This, in my opinion, is the best thing ever to happen to TV since color and stereo sound, to say nothing of the vastly-improved (over 525-line NTSC) picture quality of today's digital television.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

...there could be a special VIR-like signal in the digital streams of today's DTV signals since the pictures on most FS sets are very stable, ...

Digital signals do not have a color subcarrier, so there is no need to correct subcarrier phase and amplitude, which is what the VIR was supposed to do.

[lnx64]

My old Panasonic doesn't mess with Macrovision and can even record it without issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVT5AApDy8I

[Electronic M]

"I repeat, I don't need it to remove the MV, I just need it to pass it to the TV, which won't care anyway." Nearly all VCRs send and pass the MV signals to the TV both through RF and direct video connection so odds are that it is already getting to the TV set as it is.

[Tony75]

Had a bit of experience hooking up RF only TVs over the years to DVD player via modulators. Most stand-alone modulators aren't wonderful quality and seem to die after a couple of years was one thing we found.
We also found that older (1980s) Pana VCRs really hated having a MV signal from a DVD passed through them. The later ones (with the K mech) were a mixed bag, some did and some didn't.
The only real definite ones I found have been the last model Sony units, the ones with the Samsung mechanism. These work fine with the MV signal as an RF modulator.
I have a spare one, but you are probably not in the right country for this one.

[CoogarXR]

I know I have had problems back in the day, connecting a cheap-o Apex DVD player to a cheap-o Symphonic VCR at my mother-in-law's house. When you would play the DVD through the VCR, using it as a modulator, the picture would be scrambled on certain copy-protected discs. I assumed it was a copy protection feature anyway, heh.

I just ended up giving her an external modulator and a coax A/B switch.

I assumed all VCRs did that. I am watching this thread now out of curiosity, hehe. I learn something new every day.

[Outland]

Hey Tony,

That's been my experience with external modulators as well.

Sony, eh? Kind of ironic, given how much they like copy-protection.

You're right, I'm in the states. If you have the model #, I can probably track one down here though.

Coogar,

Yeah, most VCRs ruin the picture. Some oddballs just don't seem to care for some reason, though. The early Betamax decks are also known to be immune to any kind of Macrovision. They'll even record it with no problems.

[Tony75]

Two of the Sony units that i've used for this are the SLV-EZ725 and the 735.
Not sure what their American equivalents are.
If you are familiar with the workings it is the chassis that cracks a little blue centre gear near the clutch which causes all sorts of issues. Not hard to replace but does give the whole VCR a somewhat limited lifespan.