New Project Tele-Tone TV 149

[skylinesys]

Greetings everyone, My first post here, and my first vintage TV project. I picked up an Tele-Tone TV 149 on eBay. It's in pretty rough shape, but after a good refinishing it should look awesome. I will provide a link to some photos.

My plan is to refinish first then re-stuff the can caps and then move on to doing the re-cap. This will be my first time doing any of this so hopefully I can pull it off and have it still work and look like a TV in the end ;-)

When it comes time to apply power, can I simply set a VCR or RF Converter to Channel 3 and TV to the same and expect that to work? In the end a DVD player playing on it would be ideal. Is that possible?

Like I said this all new to me, so if anyone has any guidance that would be greatly appreciated. I have no ideal how to check over the picture tube or test it, how to test tubes without a tube test and so on. I don't have many tools.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10009...89073052935137

[Electronic M]

A good idea would to grab an AA5 (or any 40's) tube radio and do a recap on that first for practice. If you mess a radio up it will be 1/5 the work tracking the problem down. Tube TV restoration is not a good hobby to start cold unless you have a strong background in analog electronics. I moved from radios to TVs as a teen and it took me a few years of trying, failing, and trying again on various sets to actually succeed
for the first time....
A VCR or RF modulator will supply a signal to the set. If the connection is to be wired (with VCRs and cheap RF mods that is a given) you will need a 75 to 300 Ohm balun (available at radio shack and elsewhere) to match the coax out of the RF source to the antenna terminals. A VCR or RF mod should have A/V inputs (you know the red, white, yellow RCA jacks) that you can connect the A/V outputs of a DVD player to so that the modulator or VCR can convert those signals to RF.

There is no way to test tubes (including CRTs) other than a tube tester, a working chassis that uses the same tube, or....A bunch of power supplies, meters, complex math, tube theory, etc. that will make you wish you had a tester...

Good luck.

[Phil Nelson]

This article explains how to test the filament in a tube for continuity:

http://antiqueradio.org/FirstStepsInRestoration.htm

That's a simple dud/not-dud test, but that's the info you need to get the restoration started. To begin, I wouldn't replace tubes unless they're obvious duds. The others will likely work well enough to get the TV basically working, and then you can worry about smaller issues.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[skylinesys]

Pulled the chassis out and got it wiped down and a good luck at the underside! Wow what a mess, really never seen anything built like that before. not one PCB in sight. I don't know how they kept stuff from shorting out.

Anyway how do you guys change parts buried under other parts? There is a few caps buried under some resistors I assume I have to unsolder and move out of the way? Also do you solder from the tube socket pins or just clip the old out and hook in the new parts in?

Also I see some parts under the HV box, but I can't access them from under the chassis, how do I get to them? I assume that's the fly back in there as well. I don't see the normal HV suction cup is that missing?

[MIPS]

When I pulled my Westinghouse apart I used a 100/150w Weller gun. The pencil tip irons just aren't good enough for joints this big. With the gun on the joint I used the pliers to flex the wire which is usually wound around the terminal just so I could hopefully find the other end of the lead sticking out of the mass of solder, then I used the pliers to unwind and pull the lead off the terminal while the iron kept the joint hot. If you have a desoldering tool it makes things way easier as you can just remove all the solder from the terminal and usually the component can be pulled out.
I also had to remove some components to reach more deeply wired components. You CAN clip the old parts out and solder the new components in but it can look rather ugly.

Just to be warned, you will find that a number of resistors will of drifted away from their indicated values. It's advisable to at the least confirm the values of the higher wattage resistors.

I don't know how they kept stuff from shorting out.

Very carefully.

Attaching a VCR or anything that can output to channel 3/4 will work. That includes a Playstation 3 with the RF adapter.

Also, even after a full recap I'd be weary of just plugging it in. An immediate inrush of electricity at full power after years of no use can cause a number of things to happen, most of which potentially bad. If you can find someone with a variac or if you're really desperate, a dimmer switch, you gradually bring the voltage up over time, observing things like current draw, if the heaters in all the tubes are lighting up (that will include the CRT), or if components are simply not going to wake up and burn out immediately.

[old_coot88]

Originally Posted by skylinesys

Greetings everyone, My first post here, and my first vintage TV project. I picked up an Tele-Tone TV 149 on eBay. It's in pretty rough shape, but after a good refinishing it should look awesome. I will provide a link to some photos.

My plan is to refinish first then re-stuff the can caps and then move on to doing the re-cap. This will be my first time doing any of this so hopefully I can pull it off and have it still work and look like a TV in the end ;-)

When it comes time to apply power, can I simply set a VCR or RF Converter to Channel 3 and TV to the same and expect that to work? In the end a DVD player playing on it would be ideal. Is that possible?

Like I said this all new to me, so if anyone has any guidance that would be greatly appreciated. I have no ideal how to check over the picture tube or test it, how to test tubes without a tube test and so on. I don't have many tools.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10009...89073052935137

Not intending to be a fuddyduddy or to dampen your zeal, but this is not an ideal project for a beginner.
For one, it's an electrostatic-deflection set. it predates the elecromagnetic-deflection scheme which became standard from the late 1940s on. It's not representative of the vast majority of vintage TVs still out there.
Even if you should get this set working (which would be a challenge for a seasoned techie), you would still lack any experience on the standard (magnetic-deflection) sets.
For instance, this set does not use a deflection yoke or a "flyback" transformer (it uses a stand-alone RF supply for high voltage).

Were I you (which I ain't), and considering the pristine condition of the chassis, I would sell it to someone who restores and/or collects electrostatic sets. There are some guys on here who do so. Then I would shop for a nice standard (EM-deflection) set to cut teeth on.

OR better yet, an AA5 radio, as Electronic M mentioned earlier.

[dtvmcdonald]

That is an electrostatic deflection set: no flyback, instead the oscillator
coil in the third photo. You will need several 6000 volt film caps. Allied Electronics
has them. You may want or need to use larger values than specified (i.e. doubled) for the two 500pF ones filtering the 6kV supply and the two 0.005 uF ones to the vertical
deflection plates. These caps are not cheap. Removing the horizontal output
tube does not kill the 6KV, removing the oscillator tube (12SN7 in the HV box) does.

The picture tube is near-unobtainium. You should put one of those Zener
diode clamper thingies across the filament of the CRT to prevent it overheating
as the other tubes warm up. Use an 8.2 volt one. Other threads on sets
like this, the Emerson 600/610 and the Pilot TV-37, give part numbers at
Digikey or Mouser. Don't test the filament by turning it on! Use an ohmmeter.
If bad, pray and try resoldering the two filament base pins.

Whether to unwrap or just cut and kludge-attach the new part for
replacement caps and resistors is controversial. This is not a rare or super
valuable set (just rare working replacement CRT). Its not worth a careful
capacitor restuff job unless that's your real personal big deal. When
I did my CT-100, which IS rare and super valuable, I didn't restuff since
its not my thing. But I DID save all the old caps so a future owner could.
The harder question is whether to unwrap leads or cut and kludge.

My philosophy is to want to unwrap properly ... BUT to carefully consider
each case. If there are fragile things connected to the lug, or if
the cut and kludge would save having to unsolder parts to get at buried things,
or if there is a risk or burning things up with the soldering iron because
something is buried, I would not hesitate to cut the old part out
however necessary to play safe, even if it meant destroying it. But its up to you.

Desoldering tools ("solder suckers" and that solder wicking braid stuff) are good friends. Old TVs may use other than 60-40 or 63-37 solder that is hard to
get off. In that case you can actually add a bit of modern 63-37 to help along.

If you do do a full unwrap at a given lug, its often good to make sure
resistors are disconnected too so you can measure them with one end disconnected.

I too suggest doing a simple AA5 radio first. ESPECIALLY electrolytic cap restuffing.

Edit: I don't think that inexperience should determine whether to try a pre-1950
magnetic deflection set or an electrostatic one like this one first. They are of
equal difficulty, i.e. nothing special. I would simply suggest not trying an
important (i.e. early color or prewar) set first.

[skylinesys]

Going to shelf the set for a bit, thanks for the feedback!

Originally Posted by old_coot88

Not intending to be a fuddyduddy or to dampen your zeal, but this is not an ideal project for a beginner. Were I you (which I ain't), and considering the pristine condition of the chassis, I would sell it to someone who restores and/or collects electrostatic sets. There are some guys on here who do so. Then I would shop for a nice standard (EM-deflection) set to cut teeth on.

[Username1]

I think you should keep working on it, just go really slow, read a bunch first, there are
a few threads here that are very detailed, and there are a few who have stand alone
websites which have even more detail.... Just set off your expected completion date for
this set, and work slower.... You can learn while doing this set....

.

[Electronic M]

I think oldcoot has either tried restoring a dog of an e-stat set, or he wants yours....E-stat deflection sets are usually no more difficult than EM models save for a few models that have some known weak points.

And replacement 7" CRTs for them are no impossible to find...A couple of years ago I got a good one for 1$ at the donation auction of a ham/antique radio club meet (I must have been the only one there that knew what it was).

[skylinesys]

Thanks guys for the feedback I am going to shelf the set for while.Work on some radios first.

[MIPS]

Removing the horizontal output
tube does not kill the 6KV, removing the oscillator tube (12SN7 in the HV box) does.

Thank you for pointing that out. I thought about it later and realized that yes, this is an electrostatic set.

[old_coot88]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

I think oldcoot has either tried restoring a dog of an e-stat set, or he wants yours....).

Naww. Not at all. My first concern was that an e-stat set is not representative of the vast bulk of vintage TVs, an as such is not ideal for a beginner intent on getting into TV restoration.
But then, what the heck. It does embody a stage in evolution of TV set design. And as such may be a unique project for a first-timer. Then he can get into 'standard' EM-deflection sets later.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by old_coot88

My first concern was that an e-stat set is not representative of the vast bulk of vintage TVs, an as such is not ideal for a beginner intent on getting into TV restoration.

On the other hand, the circuit design with no yoke, no focus coil, separate HV supply (not related to the horiz or boost supply circuits) is more straightforward and perhaps easier to understand for one just starting in TV restoration.

jr

[old_coot88]

Good point.