Westinghouse K840CK15 Restoration

[etype2]

UPDATE FEBRUARY 1, 2021.

Edit: Replaced Tiff file with new render.
Edit: Added 1 Tiff file.
Edit: Preview files not displaying properly. Removed.

It was suggested that we try rendering photos in Tiff file format to show 1954 NTSC extended color gamut color phosphors. Tiff is an uncompressed format, unlike Jpeg, that captures the full dynamic range of the photo. My Sony A6300 so far, will not download Tiff files to my iPad Pro 2 with WCG P3, using a mini USB to Lightning cable and Imaging Edge Mobile software Sony supplies with the camera. So we found an APP for my iPhone X that allows Tiff image capture. We used Lightroom for iPad editor for processing. Lightroom automatically converts the finished render to Jpeg which seems self defeating, but it does seem to capture the edited colors correctly to my untrained eyes. I have saved Tiff files with Affinity Photo editor and compared them to the edited JPEG’s and don’t see much difference on my P3 display.

I have set up a low resolution gallery with commentary to fit VideoKarma’s page format followed with 11 VERY LARGE Jpeg files. I can say that the greens are rendered as I see them on the 15GP22 with the movie, Wizard Of Oz. The reds are deeper, but I can’t say they are 1954 NTSC correct. In the meantime, will be working on getting the Sony to talk to my iPad.

Note: First three links are the low resolution preview files. REMAINING 11 FILES, YOU MAY NOT SEE THE CORRECT COLORS WITHOUT A WIDE COLOR GAMUT DISPLAY.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...7DE285D60.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...23EBA2F96.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...988CAF732.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...10282FCBB.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...D023B2EC7.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...AFAC4DA6D.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...26C0EE6B0.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...671A33A9E.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...3EFEF6397.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...FBBEC3D92.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...E9ED9E338.jpeg

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...DC24D4445.jpeg

[etype2]

We continue to learn photo processing and how the various settings interact with each other and how colors interact with each other. I confess the previous posting was a bit hasty and we could have done better.

We want to document color as displayed on a RCA 15GP22 in a Westinghouse H840CK15 while still operational and working well. We hope to display the “correct” NTSC 1954 colors if possible.

We had to compromise for now, using a iPhone X. The previous post explains why. This time edited with Affinity Photo. The Tiff file prior to editing looks balanced but flat. Minimal adjustments required: Increased brightness (not exposure), increased saturation, shadows and highlights. No color values were changed. The misconvergence in the upper left hand corner distorts Dorothy’s face. You can see a convergence issue at center edge right. Also the center characters cape needs more magenta, but close. This photo approximates what I see live. I chose the file because the scene seems to “pop” when viewing, probably because it’s well lighted. This file is jpeg converted from tiff. Continuing.....

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...2DA4053B7.jpeg

[etype2]

Test five. 15GP22 screenshot processed as a Tiff file. Can we see correct 1954 NTSC colors? Best viewed on a WCG display.

First 4 images are screenshots. If VK prevents Tiff files, the next link after is processed as a JPEG. I see little difference between the two files on my WCG P3 display.

Un-edited Tiff loaded into Affinity Photo editor. Blue noise in the background. The 15GP22 is much brighter. For some reason Tiff files look bad prior to editing.
https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...D32A60BB2.jpeg

Final edit settings and ready to develop. (Not showing all edit panels)

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...DC3623B1A.jpeg

Export screen.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...1EEE8674D.jpeg

Caution large file. Exported Tiff file. https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...7D7E0AADE.tiff

JPEG file. https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...15F57C2E6.jpeg

Visions4 Magazine https://visions4netjournal.com/

[old_tv_nut]

I opened the tiff file in Photoshop, which reports that the embedded profile is sRGB.

What camera are you using, and can you post a raw file from it that I could import into Lightroom or Photoshop?

[etype2]

Yes, sending it soon.

[etype2]

Post #481 explains the camera and why used. The software added to my camera seems to process the file as Raw and Jpeg and sends me what appears to be a post processed Jpeg from Raw if that makes any sense. This file can be edited as a Raw in Lightroom (for iPad) and Affinity Photo. The file: https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...8-rotated.jpeg (File not edited in Raw at this point)

Edit: in Lightroom, I can apply my camera profile or one of 6 other Adobe profiles to the Raw file, but Lightroom automatically converts to Jpeg on export. I find Affinity Photo editor more linear and accurate and I can export as a Tiff.

[old_tv_nut]

Anything can be edited in Lightroom, that doesn't mean it contains the full color range of a raw file. I'm afraid this will be a futile experiment until you can actually use the raw files, not jpg or TIF versions, since the TIF file seems to be rendered in sRGB color space instead of something wider.

Can't you remove the memory card from your Sony, put it in a card reader, and load the raw files onto your computer, or are you stuck using the ipad?

[etype2]

I gave up on desktops at retirement. Only have an iPad. Open to a laptop. Question, if what you say is true and I’m not doubting you, why dose Lightroom and Affinity allow me to process as a Raw file? The Raw editor comes up by default. If I import a JPEG, no Raw editor screens. I definitely see improved files to edit and the entire dynamic range seems to appear on the Raw editor.

[etype2]

Suggestion, if you remove all adjustments from the Raw file I sent, (Reset All) it should remove the sRGB profile.

[old_tv_nut]

You posted an "Un-edited Tiff loaded into Affinity Photo editor" that posted as a jpg.

Then you posted an Affinity-edited tif with the setting "use document profile" but the export screen doesn't say what that profile is. When opened in Photoshop to find out what the profile is, it says it's sRGB.

So, to clarify this, how about uploading the tif here before loading it into affinity, and we'll see what the profile is when loaded into photoshop. Maybe it hasn't been confined to sRGB yet at that point. So the question is, where did it first become sRGB. If it's sRGB before editing, all is lost, but if not, there may be a possibility to set the working space in Affinity to something wider than sRGB (I don't know for sure, have never used Affinity).

If you load a raw file into Lightroom, it uses the wide lightroom working space of Prophoto RGB. If you load a raw file into Photoshop, it will use whatever working space Photoshop has been set to. If you load some other file type into Photoshop, and if the Photoshop preferences have been set to pop up color warnings, it will tell you if the file's color space and the Photoshop working space don't match, and what each of those are.

So, see if you can upload the TIF file from the camera before opening it in any software, and let's see what the color space is to begin with.

[old_tv_nut]

By the way, I don't know if the version of Lightroom on the iPad is crippled compared to Lightroom Classic on a PC. Lightroom Classic lets you select the export file format, and if you select TIFF, it suggests setting the color space to ProPhoto RGB. If the version on the iPAD doesn't have these options, it's a problem for what you are trying to do.

[etype2]

My Lightroom is “light”. Free and some features grayed out. So I’m going with Affinity. The problem is on my side. The presets were RGB. I’m given options, see the screenshots. Lab16? See the formats, presets and profiles. There are others, could not capture in one shot.

The first image is the Raw file edit screen. We do all edits with the panels on the right, when done, hit “develop”. Have the option to convert document. I selected Lab16 and it created a profile as an example in screen shot. Get something I like, develop, choose format, pixel format and profile.





Edit: I’ll continue to experiment with formats other than RGB and post my results. Thank you for your help and any more suggestions welcomed.

[old_tv_nut]

For pixel format you want TIFF RGB 16 bit.
For ICC Profile, Prophoto RGB would likely be most compatible with Adobe products, but if not, Display P3 might work, but "Display" P3 sounds suspiciously like it might be P3 specifically for the iPad version of P3, not sure. Have to look up these profiles to see how they compare to ProPhoto, which will have to wait until tomorrow.

Bedtime now, but if you upload TIFF RGB 16bit with Display P3 in rthe meantime, I can try it with Photoshop tomorrow afternoon.

[etype2]

I’m a night owl. Will experiment. Thanks for last suggestion.

[etype2]

Warning! First three links are 50 MB’s each.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...41402062A.tiff

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...62F4E8240.tiff

In the third link below. Although the noisiest render, look at the detail and color toning in Judy Garland’s dress, which can’t be rendered when I shoot in Jpeg.

https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...252309369.tiff

This file was used to create the image in the first link above. https://visions4netjournal.com/wp-co...0-rotated.jpeg Notice the flat image which opens as a JPEG but can be rendered as a RAW file. It is both a Tiff and Jpeg file. If it opens as a JPEG in Photoshop, there may be a way to extract the Tiff, but not familiar with Photoshop.

You can open the first three files in Photoshop with “LAB D50”. I read up on LAB 16 and learned it has a very wide color gamut far exceeding sRGB. It is supposed to be compatible with many devices and opened on my iPad. Still learning photo editing and may have messed up, but I rendered to my untrained eyes. You will need a wide color gamut display to view the added color information, but I think you can see the added detail.

If this works, will continue to shoot images in RAW off the 15GP22 with good color content in efforts to display something close to 1954 NTSC color.

Preview images.