IC chip identification

[timmy]

Is there a way to find out the inner workings or a type of schematic of an IC chip if there are no markings. Or is there a computer type apparatus that the chip is plugged into and it generates info on how to put a small board together with the components together to do the same as the chip.

[old_tv_nut]

Basically, no, if it's a proprietary chip.

Take an analog TV chip for example:The major U.S. TV makers all used proprietary chips. If you identify which chassis the chip belongs to, you may at most find an internal block diagram in the service literature, but not a detailed circuit that would allow you to build an equivalent. You would not find details of what the voltages and signal levels at the pins should be except by finding them marked in the schematic or by measuring a working chassis. As someone who has designed such chips, I can tell you that a prototype built from transistor arrays and discretes of even an early IC that performed a simple function (like color demodulation) would cover a tin-plate ground plane a foot or two on each side.

In the U.S., large semiconductor makers (Motorola) designed video/chroma processor chips and published app notes. They must have sold some, I guess, but I don't know to whom. Even Motorola TVs didn't use Motorola-Semiconductor-designed chips.

The situation may have been different in Europe, with TV makers using publicly specified chips, but I don't know. (Maybe this was the case with Philips, who made both chips and sets?)

[Alex KL-1]

Additionally, modern chip ones, with embedded µprocessor, such as eg. TDA9370, can have unique programmation for each maker, with different funcions for some pins so, even with some info, is very risky.

[timmy]

Oh ok well it is proprietary so that idea is out. What really is the life span of a 16 pin IC from the 70s I’m sure later on they may have got better.

[Alex KL-1]

Originally Posted by timmy

Oh ok well it is proprietary so that idea is out. What really is the life span of a 16 pin IC from the 70s I’m sure later on they may have got better.

A lot survives well and works within specification today.

[old_tv_nut]

Bipolar IC's were generally rugged. Not as subject to static damage as CMOS, and definitely had much larger more rugged transistors compared to today's digital chips, since bipolar IC transistors fundamentally cannot be shrunk down per Moore's law. You could have hundreds of transistors, but not thousands, millions or billions.

[zeno]

What is this IC in ? That may give clues. It was common to scrub parts
by some MFG's. Keeps then in control of repairs etc.

Some newer IC's have programable micros like the common Toshiba TMP###.
there is a 3 to 4 digit ## at the end that gives the part ##. Dont matter,
no way to program the "blank" IC without deep knowledge.

Zeno

[timmy]

Originally Posted by zeno

What is this IC in ? That may give clues. It was common to scrub parts
by some MFG's. Keeps then in control of repairs etc.

Some newer IC's have programable micros like the common Toshiba TMP###.
there is a 3 to 4 digit ## at the end that gives the part ##. Dont matter,
no way to program the "blank" IC without deep knowledge.

Zeno

The IC is from the Sinclair mtv1 which cannot be found but I have 3 that work perfect but trying to figure a way get around when they go bad. The last one I have I turned it off and did not come back on. It went bad just like that.

[Doug]

Texas instrument made the custom ics for them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV-1

[timmy]

Originally Posted by Doug

Texas instrument made the custom ics for them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV-1

Yes I know Texas Instruments made them for Sinclair but it’s proprietary and they are not made anymore and there is no block diagram of the chip

[Doug]

Doesn't look like much luck in.uk

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/....php?p=1135968

[jr_tech]

Some info on page 19:

https://www.guenthoer.de/doku/service-sinclairmtv1.pdf

jr