Digital Television may not be coming soon!

[peverett]

I expect that the transition in the UK would be smoother. I think that the much higher(in general) population density and the much less varied terrain/weather conditions there would also play a part in this.

[radiotvnut]

I don't know about everyone else; but, in my area, there is no reason for anyone not to be aware of the DTV transition unless they have been living under a rock for the past two years. Yes, there may be people that don't understand the whole DTV thing; but, I don't see how they could not at least be aware of it. During almost every commercial break, there are ad's about the DTV transition and there are crawlers running during regular programming. I've seen several 30 minute infomercials and they bring up the subject every day on the local news.

I can't speak for everyone else on the Magnavox/Funai converter boxes; but, my cousin and sister both have the Magnavox boxes and they have not failed after several months of use. Believe me, I'd know about it if they failed. I will agree that they are about the most user unfriendly box out there; but, they get the job done. I tried to talk my relatives into spending the extra $10 on a better box; but, they are tighter than I am!

[tubesrule]

I have been remotely involved in the changeover to DTV in the UK, as I have designed some electronics for the head-ends. The situation does seem more orderly there, but there are some major differences.

First, there is still the yearly "tax" payed to the government for each set owned. This can help offset the cost of transition. Their terrestrial DTV is called FreeView and provides a very good assortment of channels. Like someone above mentioned, it's not simply a duplicate of the analog stations, but appears more like a full EPG like that of digital cable or satellite.

Now the big difference. Because of the hilly terrain and the population being spread out in rural areas, early BBC tests showed that much of the population would not be able to receive terrestrial broadcasts. To address this, they also offer FREE satellite on the SKY system. This way the viewer can purchase a terrestrial receiver if they're in a good coverage area, or a satellite receiver if not. Also with the satellite receiver, you can add pay channels on top of the free ones if desired.

I think this latter solution of theirs is the one we are missing here. The BBC did their tests and ensured that EVRYONE had a way to get free digital broadcasts. Our plan 'B' appears to be force people to buy cable or satellite service if they can't receive DTV. While I get good DTV reception where I'm at, I would be quite upset that the percentage of my tax dollars spent on public broadcasting and the FCC which I could take advantage of on analog would simply go away on digital. So what will these people be paying for?

Darryl

[julianburke]

In the UK, how much is the tax for each TV set? They have "TV Police" who go around and look for untaxed TV's and the fines are very steep. (like the FCC going around in vans and can tell if there is a TV turned on in a particular house) Do you pay the tax when you buy a TV or who do you go to for this?

I know that you cannot just go buy a car there and go to the courthouse and register it. You have to "bid" on license plates available so no one pays the same and the more desirable ones costing as much as $1500 or more. Also what is the "MOT" tax and is that for everything? Is this correct?

[tubesrule]

The latest cost of a license is £139.50 for color and £47.00 for B&W. This is handled by the Television Licensing Agency (TVLA). http://www.tv-l.co.uk/

They do take this very seriously, and will prosecute violators. Companies that rent or sell televisions are required to report the customers name to the TVLA within 28 days or face a £1000 fine. Individuals that are caught are typically fined £150 with a maximum of £1000. According to the TVLA, on any particular day, they typically catch about 1200 people!

Because the license fee is a direct cost, I think people in the UK would have been very upset if DTV did not work for them. Unfortunately because it's a buried tax here, people are less likely to get upset. One big hole in the UK scheme is it is assumed that every household needs to pay this tax, so if you truly don't own a television, you can get constantly hassled by the TVLA. Here is an interesting link documenting one persons struggle: http://www.marmalade.net/lime/

I'm not familiar with an MOV tax, so I'll ask a couple of friends in the UK.

Darryl

[rockin1150]

Originally Posted by Gone Johnson

I hear the President Elect is going to postpone the deadline. The Commerce department ran out of coupons for the converter box give away. (No money left in the budget.) What a mess!

Some people even here at AK, were talking about hoarding the converter boxes, even if they don't need them! I was totally shocked that someone that doesn't need them wants a few to 'hand around the house'... when the gov't is outta $$ for the coupons.... I wanna slap some people, and you know there will be a few morons trying to make a buck off some old lady that has no converter box in the future...

[electroking]

Hello again,

When I mentioned that transition, I may have stretched the comparison
a bit: after all, the Swedes did not have to modify their cars to get
thru the transition process (they already had left-hand drive cars, they
just had to move to the right hand side of the roads). Regards.

[andy]

---

[Pete Deksnis]

[1]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Who the hell is in charge of this unholy mess ? Larry, Moe, & Curley ?

[2] Okay, I've gone through the emotional states -- anger, depression, whatever -- and have folded the inevitable death of NTSC into my tender ego. I say bring it in on schedule... let's get it over with.

[3] political musings deleted

[radotvguy]

Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis

[1]

[2] Okay, I've gone through the emotional states -- anger, depression, whatever -- and have folded the inevitable death of NTSC into my tender ego. I say bring it in on schedule... let's get it over with.

[3] political musings deleted

I agree with Pete

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

<snip> in IMO, the only thing wrong with all the publicity to date is that it didn't say "convert now" instead of "convert on Feb 17" The digital signals are available and have been available for months. Have you converted your mother. grandfather, great uncle yet? If not, shame on you! You are a greater problem than Congress! You are the guru in your circle of acquaintances. You should be finding out if there are any problems beforehand, not after analog shuts down.

So, yeah, the bill was written a little goofy, but the program as a whole appears to have worked very well even given the limitations that were put on it by Congress.

Actually, the digital signals have been available for -years-, about 9 years in the larger metros, and about 5 years everywhere else (exceptions - some PBS stations, stations in very small markets, and independent stations that were handed an out-of-core temporary channel - acknowledged)

This, of course, only further proves your point!

The whole thread should have been titled "Analog may not be leaving soon!".

The statement about people living "more than 20 miles out" being unable to receive DTV is ridiculous. In fact, in most areas (those with full power DTV transmitters), more people -within- 20 miles of the local transmitters will have problems with DTV than those 20-45 miles out (sounds strange, but PM me and I'll elaborate).

As for the problem with the Funai CECB: My Philco works fine for DTV (though the analog pass-through feature is not quite perfect) (also, my Philco is an earlier production model. If the newer boxes have problems cause by trying to meet the increased demand, I'm not aware of it).

I also wonder how the coupon program "ran out of money" so suddenly. The program was supposed to go to a second phase when the money started running low (only one to a household, and ONLY for households that did not have cable nor satellite), which would have greatly increased how long the coupons would be available.

[julianburke]

[

Are you thinking of the MOT? That's just a safety inspection.[/QUOTE]

Typo, I meant MOT and is corrected.

[peverett]

I just read another article today about people losing their TV due to the DTV transition. My proposal would be to make the corporations(not taxpayers) who are so interested in the TV spectrum pay for basic satellite for the people cannot receive DTV(due to their location, etc). The payments should continue as long as the non-reception problems of DTV continue. Otherwise, these corporations will be simply stealing ad-supported TV from some viewers. Not fair at all in my opinion.

Still, this does not solve the bad weather issue with DTV (and satellite) that I have seen(even at 30 miles). This is another reason that I think the complete removal of analog TV broadcasting is a bad idea.

As to the 20 mile range, I live at least 30 miles and have no problems(even with the reduced power levels used now) when the weather is good. Even my mother rural Oklahoma (70 miles from the transmitter) can receive some stations in good weather. I am not sure where this idea of a 20 mile limit came from.

As a last note, at my last antique radio convention, I had a discussion with a person who works in the TV transmission industry. He confirms what Robert Grant says about the close-in receivers having more trouble than the receivers farther out.

[Phil Nelson]

I have been using a DTV converter for a long time and have no trouble receiving stations from 30+ miles away using my homebrew indoor antenna. I guess location, location, location still matters. But it's certainly not all bad.

Phil Nelson

[bgadow]

Originally Posted by andy

As far as cars go, bidding is only if you want a personalized plate. As far as I know, you can't just have a custom plate made, so it's luck of the draw. Obviously plates that randomly happen to spell something are worth some money. The plates usually stay with the car for its entire life, rather than with its owner, but "personalized" plates can be swapped from car to car. The first letter of the plate tells you what year the car was made, and there's a big surge in car sales every year when the new starting letter comes out (because everyone will know you have a new car).

This is not too far from what they do next door in Delaware. Low number tags can sell for huge money-a 2 digit might bring $75-100K at auction. Last week there was a 91 Dodge pickup in the paper with, I think, a 5-digit tag. You could buy the tag with or without the truck, your choice, for around $1500.