who designed the sets..and how..

[ceebee23]

Folks, I read the threads and look at the pictures of those great roundies from RCA and Zenith and the other companies but do we know anything about the engineers who sat down and designed them?

Who were they... how long did it take them to design a set etc... it seems to me that they deserve the credit for bringing color television into our homes... from the guys at RCA (and CBS) who developed color television to the engineers who designed the sets.

Where would we be without them?

[Sandy G]

Well, lessee here...Do you want to go thru the CBS' field sequential system, which was developed to some extent by Peter Goldmark ? It was actually adopted by the FCC, but ultimately proved unworkable, & in any case, was incompatible w/monochrome TV...Or the RCA system which was ultimately approved ? The lead men on the RCA team were Elmer Engstrom & Dr George Brown. Engstrom was a senior technical executive at RCA, he had an electrical Engineering degree from U of Minnesota in 1923. He apparently was a serious, sober type man. He was compared to Omar Bradley. George Brown was apparently more like Patton-He had the ability to motivate & insoire his subordinates, & was brilliant on technical matters, but he had a "salty" view of the brass at RCA that got him in trouble more than once. His work in color TV earned him a promotion to RCA's board of directors & a vice-presidency in 1965, but squabbled w/Bobby Sarnoff & one of his men, Chase Morsey, & Dr Brown resigned in '72, retiring in '73. I got this info from "Behind the Tube", an excellent history on radio, TV, & associated topics.

[stromberg67]

Also, John W. Wentworth, RCA Victor Division, is credited with the publication "COLOR TELEVISION ENGINEERING", as published internally and confidentially by RCA, and that was also was the title of a McGraw-Hill text. I don't know for sure if Wentworth actually "designed a chassis", but he certainly was instrumental in the groundwork for modern color as it came to be.
Dr. Goldmark should also be remembered for his contributions to the television art, and those contributions were not limited to "mechanical" color.
Kevin

[wa2ise]

I worked at the RCA Sarnoff R&D Lab back in the 80s, and there were a few old timers who were there to see the development of NTSC color TV. There was one legend that had it that there was to be a demo of a color camera and a monitor/receiver on the other side of the room. Story has it that the chroma subcarrier oscillator in the receiver wasn't working right, and so they hid a coax cable feeding the 3.58MHz carrier from the source to the receiver, under the carpet. The big boys never caught on... In a few days someone figured out how to do the chroma oscillator circuit.

We also had an old timer who was said to have invented the CRT. Vladmir Zworykin. He had an office in the building, but I think he rarely came in.

[bgadow]

Very interesting that Zworykin still had an office that late! But, given what he did for RCA, I'd give him an office for life, too.

I was thinking how busy the engineering departments must have been at the "big boys" (RCA, Zenith, maybe Motorola) in the 60s. As soon as they got a color chassis "perfected" they had to adapt it to rectangular, then start working on portables, hybrids, solid state, modulars. I also thought how frustrating it must have been in the back rooms at small companies like Emerson, Olympic, Setchell-Carlson, etc, to try and keep up with the big players. No wonder they gave up.

[zenith2134]

This has been one of the most interesting threads so far at the new forums IMO

Never heard of this man before it. but I agree with what Bryan is saying about the number of people working so hard on early color. Kind of like being a soundman during the 50s or 60s American heyday trying to compete with RCA Victor, or Capitol or whomever else.

Not meaning to derail this thread in any way, but I was thinking before (uh-oh..) about the Development of the pinchusion circuit for rectangular. On a circuit level I understand it for the most part but the details must have been fascinating.

[cbenham]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Well, lessee here...Do you want to go thru the CBS' field sequential system, which was developed to some extent by Peter Goldmark ? It was actually adopted by the FCC, but ultimately proved unworkable, & in any case, was incompatible w/monochrome TV...Or the RCA system which was ultimately approved ?

If the RCA color system had been incompatible with monochrome, it would have been far more successful much earlier in the game. As it was, it took from 1954 until about 1970 or so for color television to catch on. Why? Because everybody with a B&W set could watch what a few other people were watching in color. That the RCA system was compatible is why people stayed away in droves instead of rushing out to buy a new color set. "We can still watch TV, so why get a big expensive set now? We can wait until they get better and the price comes waaaaay down." I think David Sarnoff's ego
got in the way of good business management.

[marty59]

cbenham...not to disagree with you completely, but look at it this way. As wonderful as the development of color tv is, it wasn't until the late mid 60's on before there was any real "portability" in color tv. As novel as color was in the early days (and to many people) B&W tv still dominated. Many households had the "color" as the main set but elsewhere were the portable B&W's...And the Old B&W console relegated to the basement.

We had to wait for engineering and the advanvement of technology to give us portable and more affordable color. At least with the RCA color system there was no worry of any broadcast media becoming obsolete. And it is clever to put the color burst information on the "back porch" of the carrier as to not interfere with B&W. Plus, the change-over to broadcast to color was easier to adopt (but costly too).

Could you imagine such a drastic changeover occuring back then like what we've had to deal with going over to digital/HDTV? Our Grandparents would have thought the sky was falling!!

It continues to amaze me to this day of the pioneering spirit and all that has been contributed for our benefit. And at least (with a converter box, etc) we can still watch out B&W's too!!

[cbenham]

Originally Posted by marty59

As wonderful as the development of color tv is, it wasn't until the late mid 60's on before there was any real "portability" in color tv.

That is because there was not enough interest in color since everybody could still watch the same color programs on their B&W sets. If color had been non-compatible, not receivable on B&W sets, it would have been much quicker to become popular, and the manufacturers would have developed portable color sets far more quickly. People would have bought more color sets early on if they couldn't watch TV on their older B&W sets. Compatability stilled the growth of color television because everybody could still use their B&W sets. The GE Porta-Color in 1966 and the 12 inch Sony Trinitron in 1970 did more to boost the sales and adoption of color than any sets before.

[zenith2134]

No info about the transition to rectangular and the development of pincushion circuitry? Should that be in another thread?

[eberts]

There was no interest in color TV in the late 50's and early 60's because a color TV then cost about $600.
You could buy a brand new buick station wagon for that at that time.
Brand new houses were $18,000, cherry flavored sno-cones were a nickle.
I remember full grown men working for $33 a week.
I also remember women were not allowed to be employed in bars, and businesses were required to be closed on Sundays.
I have no ideal what I did or ate yesterday. I hope I went potty.

[roundscreen]

[QUOTE=eberts;2955792]
[I also remember women were not allowed to be employed in bars, and businesses were required to be closed on Sundays.}

That was called blue laws and they should bring them back.

{I have no ideal what I did or ate yesterday. I hope I went potty.}

That is too much information.
Ed

[zenith2134]

Hi ,

while I do agree with some aspects of the 'blue laws' like liquoring up early on Sunday, the stuff re: women's rights is severely outdated and I have decided to disagree with the both of you. Just a personal opinion.... As most of you know I am usually down to poke fun at the conventions of society and speak my mind on controversial issues, but this is it for me.

Anyways, I do think eberts' idiotic statements about himself are indeed uncalled for and, I assume, mostly unwanted on a video/electronics discussion board.

So back on topic, I recall another phenom of later TV history,,, The Closed Captioning decoders. IIRC, it was about 1993 when all new sets bigger than 13" HAD TO come with them.

Boy, I bet there are less than 2 people on earth playing a CC decoder through a digital tv set top box, in '09 (!!)

[bgadow]

You know, I have been helping sell inventory from my friend's shop and the other day he handed me a Telecaption adapter. Sure enough, on ebay I sold it. The buyer has a set with built-in captioning but they lost the OEM remote and can't turn it on/off. So, they decided this was the best way to go. I think he said they have DirectTV. BTW, I tested the unit by plugging it in between a converter box and my DuMont color set!

[jeyurkon]

Originally Posted by zenith2134

Hi ,

while I do agree with some aspects of the 'blue laws' like liquoring up early on Sunday, the stuff re: women's rights is severely outdated and I have decided to disagree with the both of you. Just a personal opinion.... As most of you know I am usually down to poke fun at the conventions of society and speak my mind on controversial issues, but this is it for me.

Anyways, I do think eberts' idiotic statements about himself are indeed uncalled for and, I assume, mostly unwanted on a video/electronics discussion board.

So back on topic, I recall another phenom of later TV history,,, The Closed Captioning decoders. IIRC, it was about 1993 when all new sets bigger than 13" HAD TO come with them.

Boy, I bet there are less than 2 people on earth playing a CC decoder through a digital tv set top box, in '09 (!!)

Well, I guess I'll be as guilty as the rest of you and continue off topic.
Eberts was giving his view on why color didn't take off right away and examples of what $600 meant. He then made a statement showing that things change as time goes on.

He then made fun of himself. I don't know how old he is, but as we get older we seem to be able to easily remember things from the past, but not yesterday's events. I don't think it was a crime for him to point that out even if it was the only statement that drifted too far from the topic.

John