How to get full picture on CRT television sets

[uncleputz]

I must be the last guy on the planet to be able to figure out how to do this. I want to watch over-the-air, antenna TV on my old CRT television sets and get a full picture. I have read articles on this until my eyeballs bleed, still it doesn't sink in. The videos I watch use technical terms (VG97, rf modulator, etc) that don't make any sense to me. These items can't be purchased in a store, apparently, so they need to be scrounged. I don't know what I'm looking for. I have a converter box that I've had for ten years or so. Now I understand it may be "obsolete" and "HD 3.0" may have taken its place, so I may need a new one. No store either has one or knows what it is or what I need. I've used my old converter and a VCR/DVD player for an RF modulator and that doesn't work. So, would any of you be good enough to straighten me out? In nice, SLOW, deliberate language, devoid of techno-babble. The specific devices I need, specific methods to connect them, that kind of thing. I reckon everybody has problems with certain details in this hobby, this one is mine. I got the TV working, but can't take this next step. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Hawkwind]

What make and model convertor box are you using? To help you I need to look that up...

[uncleputz]

Thank you for your reply. I'm using an RCA DT800B1 model converter. And an old Magnavox VCR/DVD combination. I connect the VCR to the TV, turn the VCR to channel 3, then connect the digital TV converter to the antenna input of the VCR. I only get a picture at all with the converter box. We have something like 85 over the air channels here, but I can only get about a half dozen or so. I have an amplified antenna, not sure about the brand, but it came from Walmart. If I put the antenna on a flat panel TV, I get all kinds of stations. So my thinking is the problem is my setup. I'm not confused about baluns and the different connections to the TV antenna terminals. I believe I'm good there. I'm guessing I have to leave the VCR turned on to make all this work. I've suspected the tuner in the VCR not working, but the VCR and DVD players work just fine. There's really no way to test them, other than OTA transmission that I know of. I guess there might be some way to test it with my 1077B, but I have no idea what that might be.

[bandersen]

You don't need the VCR. Connect the RF output of the converter box to the TV antenna terminals.

[Electronic M]

ATSC 3.0 is being rolled out, some ATSC 1 channels are being removed to make way, and in a few years ATSC 1 will be switched off making your current box obsolete in a few years. But for now you don't NEED to worry about ATSC 3.0.

In a few years when ATSC 3.0 is all that's on the air odds are ATSC 3.0 tuners won't have analog outputs for CRT sets...They will probably only have HDMI connectors for the output. You'll probably need to get an HDMI to AV adapter to convert to an analog output. Most people don't use OTA TV and almost nobody not on this forum (or a retro videogamer) uses CRT TVs so you probably can't get it at any brick and mortar store...but you can buy such things online easily.
But again you don't NEED to worry about ATSC 3.0 yet.

Many of the roughly 12 year old boxes from the ATSC transition have menu options that allow you to fill the screen. Sometimes that setting will be called aspect ratio, screen type, or Zoom. My Zenith DTT900 DTV converter box has a menu option for making the output fill the screen.
I've never owned an RCA DTV converter so I don't know what the menu settings for your box are.

[uncleputz]

We have two "Cozi TV" channels down here. One is on 5.3 and has the old format that gives a black line on the sides of a flat panel screen. The other on 51.3 is in the new format, that gives black lines at the top and bottom of a CRT set. I believe the 4.3 version will give a full screen on a CRT TV without any converter box if I use cable. Cable works just fine on my old TV's except for the black lines. I can get an RCA rf modulator at Walmart for $25. Will one of those work to give a full screen on CRT sets if I use cable? Where did I get the part about using a VCR/DVD player? I appreciate everyone's input on this.

[Electronic M]

The RF modulator won't fix the lines. Banderson was pointing out a redundancy in your system. The redundancy is neither good or bad for the "lines".

The proper name for the "Black lines" you see is letterboxing and pillarboxing. Letterboxing is when there are horizontal black bars above and below the picture. Pillarboxing is the correct term for when theres vertical black bars are on either side of the picture. It's possible to have both at once. If you don't call a problem by its proper name it may confuse some people reading/responding.

Letterboxing is one* way to convert 16x9 widescreen aspect ratio programs to 4x3 which is the aspect ratio of older TVs. Pillarboxing is the best way to convert old 4x3 programs to 16x9.

*The other way was called pan and scan in the era of VHS, but most boxes call it zoom...Zoom fills the screen on 4x3 TVs but it cuts the sides off new widescreen programs.
Most people prefer letterbox to Zoom since they don't want to miss action going on on the far sides of the picture.

[uncleputz]

Letterboxing and pillarboxing. Got it. Thank you. I hadn't heard those terms until now.

[Notimetolooz]

I hadn't heard of "pillarbox" either but "letterbox" was introduced so that widescreen movies could be seen in entirety on the 3:4 aspect TV screen.
Some movie DVDs have the letterbox version on one side and the "pan and scan" version on the other side.

[uncleputz]

The reason I didn't have any picture with the VCR connected is that I had the VCR on the wrong channel. I had both the converter and the VCR on the same channel. The VCR needs to be on Channel 3 and the converter box on Channel 4. Don't ask me why, that's what the directions say to do. Yeah, I read the directions AFTER I had the problem. The setup now kinda works. I suspect I need a better antenna. There is a selection in the menu that lets me get a full picture. A "Smart antenna" is recommended. I found a couple cards in the box that are good for $40 off on a converter box. They expired in 2009. So I've had this converter box over 10 years, probably closer to 12 or 13 years. It has taken me that long to get my old TV going. A man's gotta know his limitations.......

[fixmeplease]

There does seem to be differences in the converter boxes sometimes, the options. And some will pick up more channels with the same antenna. I must have 5 or 6 of them here.

An antenna is an antenna. There is no such thing as a digital or smart antenna. The same antenna that worked 50 years ago will work now. And with digital stations you either get a channel in quality or you dont get it at all. If it locks up and just shows squares you dont have a good signal but if you can get a channel good, the picture wont be any better quality with a different antenna.

I like the zoom setting as the things on the sides of the screen arent that important anyway. It makes faces just as big as they are with a large LCD tv. Some old shows will still fit your screen well too. Good luck

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by fixmeplease

There does seem to be differences in the converter boxes sometimes, the options. And some will pick up more channels with the same antenna. I must have 5 or 6 of them here.

An antenna is an antenna. There is no such thing as a digital or smart antenna. The same antenna that worked 50 years ago will work now. And with digital stations you either get a channel in quality or you dont get it at all. If it locks up and just shows squares you dont have a good signal but if you can get a channel good, the picture wont be any better quality with a different antenna.

I like the zoom setting as the things on the sides of the screen arent that important anyway. It makes faces just as big as they are with a large LCD tv. Some old shows will still fit your screen well too. Good luck

Right you are but with one exception. Amplified antennas and (in the case of outdoor antennas) antenna amplifiers. Any antenna amp that predates DTV is potentially more of a detriment than a benefit...DTV tuners can balk at antenna amps that are too noisy and have worse reception with a noisy antenna amp than they do off just the antenna alone.

Also most DTV is on UHF not VHF so usually best results come from a good UHF antenna, there are some VHF DTV stations so when picking and setting up an antenna you need to look at the carrier channel (not the virtual channel number the station advertises) of the weak stations you want and pick/optimize your antenna for those (the strong stations will take care of themselves).

[Kevin Kuehn]

Originally Posted by fixmeplease

I like the zoom setting as the things on the sides of the screen arent that important anyway. It makes faces just as big as they are with a large LCD tv. Some old shows will still fit your screen well too. Good luck

Not sure about zoom, but I've yet to see anything too interesting going on on the far sides of a wide screen program. Same with a movie theater screen, it was always more of a visual ambience effect than anything of importance.

[uncleputz]

Somebody mentioned a Blonder Tongue agile modulator. I have been looking at them as something that might be fun to tinker with. My understanding is that you connect an agile modulator to whatever you want to view, such as a cable box, Digital TV converter, VCR or even a computer. Then you get the agile modulator and the TV on the same channel and, viola, you have your own miniature broadcasting station. Several TV's can be operated at the same time with this device. Hospitals and schools used them, and they don't appear to be terribly rare. Working ones may be, I don't know. Anybody care to put in their two cents about an agile modulator?

[Notimetolooz]

This webpage may answer some of your questions.

https://www.antiqueradio.org/HomeTVTransmitter.htm

Some agile modulators put out cable channel frequencies which are a bit different. You don't want to get one of those.

I have a modulator made by Drake. Not much info available on that one though.